SISO to be used for overtime

[A2B]

If the payment isnt your worth for the extra graft, do your round and go home.

So if I clear my delivery I can in your eyes just go home even if there's still x amount of time until my official finish time?

You can't have deals with management unless it goes both ways.

Postie A on the worst walk in the office works to their time every day can't have a deal because they have no time to offer while postie B on the easiest round in the office can do a deal every day because they have time to spare.

I've been given excessive hours to clear walks in the past but it's a totally different company these days

[TopperGas]

If the payment isnt your worth for the extra graft, do your round and go home.

So if I clear my delivery I can in your eyes just go home even if there's still x amount of time until my official finish time?

You can't have deals with management unless it goes both ways.

Postie A on the worst walk in the office works to their time every day can't have a deal because they have no time to offer while postie B on the easiest round in the office can do a deal every day because they have time to spare.

I've been given excessive hours to clear walks in the past but it's a totally different company these days

It seems in some DO's it's the same old company, where manager are dishing out under the table deals to their favourite posties?

[Acca Dacca]

I dont know why its being called ghost overtime. You are doing a workload for the business.. You are entitled to come to an agreement with the manager for your worth, for the completion, no matter the time. Its a job, its your time, your body. You sell your worth to the business at the end of the day at a cost. Nothing more to it. If the payment isnt your worth for the extra graft, do your round and go home.

Ghost overtime is the overtime thats not really overtime - its being done mostly within the duty time you are already being paid for

In essence, the management would be within their rights to tell you to do it without any additional pay if you came back early for instance but everybody knows that would just cause problems

This is different from just negotiating a good rate for the overtime i.e give me 4 hours to do those 50 tracked at my finish time and i'll do it ( and it takes 1 hour 30 )

Thats different from being finished your duty an hour and a half early, getting 4 hours overtime to do 50 tracked and then finishing at what was your contracted finish time anyway when theres others who have worked the same hours without the 4 hours OT on top

[jessicarabbit]

The agreement clearly states that verbal agreements on overtime will not be affected by the pay to SiSo changes. In theory the admin/manager when he is adjusting the daily siso records can manually enter agreed periods of OT to be paid. It is supposed to be a tool to replace the paper OT sheets but it will still need some manual intervention on the part of the person submitting at the end of the week.

Those that still have good deals for OT don't panic. We went to pay for the hours you worked years ago. Now the only OT people do is their days off anything else is like most acknowledge a slog after the end of a 5 hour delivery. After delivery ot is only for the young or desperate.

However this is just a first step in the use of tech and pay. The nightmare scenario you are all worrying about is still coming but not this year!

[goldy2007]

The agreement clearly states that verbal agreements on overtime will not be affected by the pay to SiSo changes. In theory the admin/manager when he is adjusting the daily siso records can manually enter agreed periods of OT to be paid. It is supposed to be a tool to replace the paper OT sheets but it will still need some manual intervention on the part of the person submitting at the end of the week.

Those that still have good deals for OT don't panic. We went to pay for the hours you worked years ago. Now the only OT people do is their days off anything else is like most acknowledge a slog after the end of a 5 hour delivery. After delivery ot is only for the young or desperate.

However this is just a first step in the use of tech and pay. The nightmare scenario you are all worrying about is still coming but not this year!

Managers will always find away to negotiate overtime rates

If their bonus scheme is at risk

[FirstPost]

It really is simple and proven time and time again. When upper management decide to ban ghost overtime in our office the work piles high and high, then they come begging after two days..

If they want a clear office/tracked/letters then they go to the posties that love overtime, if not no posties will bother and the managers will be in the office pulling hair

[goldy2007]

It really is simple and proven time and time again. When upper management decide to ban ghost overtime in our office the work piles high and high, then they come begging after two days..

If they want a clear office/tracked/letters then they go to the posties that love overtime, if not no posties will bother and the managers will be in the office pulling hair

Spot on

the whole how much will you pay me for overtime

Is a story as old as Royal Mail it’s self

[matrix123]

If the payment isnt your worth for the extra graft, do your round and go home.

So if I clear my delivery I can in your eyes just go home even if there's still x amount of time until my official finish time?

You can't have deals with management unless it goes both ways.

Postie A on the worst walk in the office works to their time every day can't have a deal because they have no time to offer while postie B on the easiest round in the office can do a deal every day because they have time to spare.

I've been given excessive hours to clear walks in the past but it's a totally different company these days

No...you finish your round on time

[matrix123]

If the payment isnt your worth for the extra graft, do your round and go home.

So if I clear my delivery I can in your eyes just go home even if there's still x amount of time until my official finish time?

You can't have deals with management unless it goes both ways.

Postie A on the worst walk in the office works to their time every day can't have a deal because they have no time to offer while postie B on the easiest round in the office can do a deal every day because they have time to spare.

I've been given excessive hours to clear walks in the past but it's a totally different company these days

It seems in some DO's it's the same old company, where manager are dishing out under the table deals to their favourite posties?

Nothing to do with favouritism. They just want their managers off their backs and offices clear so if its available, take it if you want it. Don't if you dont feel its worth it. If different offices choose to run differently then let it pile up and they will soon change their tune i imagine, as someone else stated.

[2chorizon]

The agreement clearly states that verbal agreements on overtime will not be affected by the pay to SiSo changes. In theory the admin/manager when he is adjusting the daily siso records can manually enter agreed periods of OT to be paid. It is supposed to be a tool to replace the paper OT sheets but it will still need some manual intervention on the part of the person submitting at the end of the week.

Those that still have good deals for OT don't panic. We went to pay for the hours you worked years ago. Now the only OT people do is their days off anything else is like most acknowledge a slog after the end of a 5 hour delivery. After delivery ot is only for the young or desperate.

However this is just a first step in the use of tech and pay. The nightmare scenario you are all worrying about is still coming but not this year!

I think this is the crux of the problem, why are there “5 hour deliveries” (or walks) this: “oh we only go out for 5 hours” thing is not going to last much longer.
How can you bring back a load of mail when you have only been out for 2/3rd’s of your shift time?

i understand fatigue levels etc but delivering for 5 hours in an 8 hour shift just isn’t going to continue much longer.

(and then as the thread topic, claiming OT inside the standard 8hrs?)

[kazardaimenu]

Upping the overtime rates and reducing the managers bonuses should help things run smoothly.

[Perseus]

The agreement clearly states that verbal agreements on overtime will not be affected by the pay to SiSo changes. In theory the admin/manager when he is adjusting the daily siso records can manually enter agreed periods of OT to be paid. It is supposed to be a tool to replace the paper OT sheets but it will still need some manual intervention on the part of the person submitting at the end of the week.

Those that still have good deals for OT don't panic. We went to pay for the hours you worked years ago. Now the only OT people do is their days off anything else is like most acknowledge a slog after the end of a 5 hour delivery. After delivery ot is only for the young or desperate.

However this is just a first step in the use of tech and pay. The nightmare scenario you are all worrying about is still coming but not this year!

I think this is the crux of the problem, why are there “5 hour deliveries” (or walks) this: “oh we only go out for 5 hours” thing is not going to last much longer.
How can you bring back a load of mail when you have only been out for 2/3rd’s of your shift time?

i understand fatigue levels etc but delivering for 5 hours in an 8 hour shift just isn’t going to continue much longer.

(and then as the thread topic, claiming OT inside the standard 8hrs?)

5 hour deliveries were put in at ours as it was the maximum they could get away with 37 hour FT and 28 hour PT contracts. That's 7hr 24 a day minus 40 minute break for full time which leaves about 90 minutes to preform all prep and IPS work and load van do check etc. For a PT member of staff they have literally 15 minutes to load their van and head onto delivery for 5 hours.
Who is doing the indoor work if you INCREASE from 5 hours outdoor? Do you envisage that people will be delivering for their whole 7HR 24min shift minus break?

[Tman]

SISO to be used for overtime.
Amazing that it isn't already. Every other firm "on the clock" uses it...that's why it's there, to keep track of employees attendances.

[ted_e_bear]

The agreement clearly states that verbal agreements on overtime will not be affected by the pay to SiSo changes. In theory the admin/manager when he is adjusting the daily siso records can manually enter agreed periods of OT to be paid. It is supposed to be a tool to replace the paper OT sheets but it will still need some manual intervention on the part of the person submitting at the end of the week.

Those that still have good deals for OT don't panic. We went to pay for the hours you worked years ago. Now the only OT people do is their days off anything else is like most acknowledge a slog after the end of a 5 hour delivery. After delivery ot is only for the young or desperate.

However this is just a first step in the use of tech and pay. The nightmare scenario you are all worrying about is still coming but not this year!

I think this is the crux of the problem, why are there “5 hour deliveries” (or walks) this: “oh we only go out for 5 hours” thing is not going to last much longer.
How can you bring back a load of mail when you have only been out for 2/3rd’s of your shift time?

i understand fatigue levels etc but delivering for 5 hours in an 8 hour shift just isn’t going to continue much longer.

(and then as the thread topic, claiming OT inside the standard 8hrs?)

5 hour deliveries were put in at ours as it was the maximum they could get away with 37 hour FT and 28 hour PT contracts. That's 7hr 24 a day minus 40 minute break for full time which leaves about 90 minutes to preform all prep and IPS work and load van do check etc. For a PT member of staff they have literally 15 minutes to load their van and head onto delivery for 5 hours.
Who is doing the indoor work if you INCREASE from 5 hours outdoor? Do you envisage that people will be delivering for their whole 7HR 24min shift minus break?

Yeah I don't think mail centre worker 2chorizon has thought it through properly and just waded in saying after 5 hours delivery or as they quote 2/3rds into the shift we think we are entitled to simply down tools and stop, without taking into account what work is done prior to going out on delivery

[norris9]

Having a 'job and finish' setup resolves all these things.

Everyone gets roughly the same size of duty which is ~450 to 550 delivery points, each duty is selected based on seniority and you have to finish the duty.

Benefits:

- No lapsing (so no arguments about that)
- No cutting off (so no arguments about that)
- No bringing stuff back (so no arguments about that)
- No overtime deals with management.
- Customers happy as everything is delivered on time.
- Ofcom is happy as everything is delivered on time.
- Less managers needed - saving money for RM.
- Go home earlier in Summer. Go home later in Winter.
- Much less stressful.

Pitfalls:

- Those that need to pick up kids from school may have problems if they are overloaded with their delivery in winter.

- Less overtime, but that can be resolved by having some jobs that are ~700 to 750 delivery points and those people doing those rounds get paid more.

- Van-sharing would suck if the person you work with either wants to rush around to get done as early as possible, or if the person you work with is as slow as a snail.

The latter being a big issue with this idea. So maybe we could do what we did during Covid and have morning and afternoon shifts so everyone gets to do their round on their own, which is another bonus.