LTB 312/24 – SISO Overtime Management – Business Recovery, Transformation & Growth Agreement (Appendix 5 – Data Use and Performance Management)

[theargyspy]

Quite so. The management will say (as ever) that the 15 minutes pay docking is penalty not a shortening of your duty span.
{It's easy to see those who've never punched the clock, and who seem to naively believe that the old cliche'd excuses will work}

Been in the job over 40 years and not late once but can't see that being right, if your not getting paid, you don't work

If you arrive late, why should you be paid for the period when you weren’t at work?

It’s classed as unauthorised absence and your existing contract states somewhere that you will not be paid for unauthorised absences.

Not disputing that at all but if I'm 2 mins late and they want to deduct my pay by 15 mins then I'm not starting work until they start paying me, so I'm sitting in the canteen for the remaining 13 mins, until I'm back on the clock, as I said it's academic anyway I've never been late in over 40 years & the chances of getting sacked for being 15 mins late is nil

[Barnacle]

Quite so. The management will say (as ever) that the 15 minutes pay docking is penalty not a shortening of your duty span.
{It's easy to see those who've never punched the clock, and who seem to naively believe that the old cliche'd excuses will work}

Been in the job over 40 years and not late once but can't see that being right, if your not getting paid, you don't work

If you arrive late, why should you be paid for the period when you weren’t at work?

It’s classed as unauthorised absence and your existing contract states somewhere that you will not be paid for unauthorised absences.

Not disputing that at all but if I'm 2 mins late and they want to deduct my pay by 15 mins then I'm not starting work until they start paying me, so I'm sitting in the canteen for the remaining 13 mins, until I'm back on the clock, as I said it's academic anyway I've never been late in over 40 years & the chances of getting sacked for being 15 mins late is nil

Then they will deduct 30 minutes and if you sit there for 30 minutes you will be on your way to being sacked. Companies can do this under employment law. So if you work for a company that penalises lateness in this way, you can expect to be sacked for it.

[theargyspy]

Why would they deduct 30 mins?? I have mentioned this a few times now but I have worked at RM for over 40 years, in one of the biggest offices in the country and to the best of my knowledge no-one in my office has ever been sacked for lateness, they can't retain staff, if they start deducting 15 mins pay for 2 mins lateness the whole office would turn up at exactly the right start time instead of the 5 mins or so early that they do now to grap a coffee, hang up coats etc! and that wouldn't end well

[Tman]

Doesn't matter about the last 40 years as that's now irrelevant as those days are gone.
Now SISO is in place RM can and will monitor employees time keeping, and there's always penalties and sanctions for lateness, early finishes etc etc.
Why do think businesses spend £millions on installing such systems?

[Barnacle]

Why would they deduct 30 mins?? I have mentioned this a few times now but I have worked at RM for over 40 years, in one of the biggest offices in the country and to the best of my knowledge no-one in my office has ever been sacked for lateness, they can't retain staff, if they start deducting 15 mins pay for 2 mins lateness the whole office would turn up at exactly the right start time instead of the 5 mins or so early that they do now to grap a coffee, hang up coats etc! and that wouldn't end well

If you are late they are deducting from your pay after the fact. If a company starts to penalise lateness through wage deductions it is usually done in 15 min increments. Then you are sacked.

At the moment RM doesn’t utilise this tool but it does have it and it exists in your contract.

[worktotime]

At the same time it may make people slow down to a normal level, to avoid being made to take out the uncovered deliveries when they get back. Royal Mail, be careful what you wish for

It'll only be a matter of time before they start monitoring work rates.

and how would they do that ? as not everybody is the same .

[SpacePhoenix]

At the same time it may make people slow down to a normal level, to avoid being made to take out the uncovered deliveries when they get back. Royal Mail, be careful what you wish for

It'll only be a matter of time before they start monitoring work rates.

and how would they do that ? as not everybody is the same .

We're rapidly getting towards the point where absolutely everything will need scanning. They'll go on the PDA data

[Barnacle]

At the same time it may make people slow down to a normal level, to avoid being made to take out the uncovered deliveries when they get back. Royal Mail, be careful what you wish for

It'll only be a matter of time before they start monitoring work rates.

and how would they do that ? as not everybody is the same .

We're rapidly getting towards the point where absolutely everything will need scanning. They'll go on the PDA data

Exactly, they’ll do it the same way their hero Amazon does it.

[worktotime]

At the same time it may make people slow down to a normal level, to avoid being made to take out the uncovered deliveries when they get back. Royal Mail, be careful what you wish for

It'll only be a matter of time before they start monitoring work rates.

and how would they do that ? as not everybody is the same .

We're rapidly getting towards the point where absolutely everything will need scanning. They'll go on the PDA data

to be fair these not a lot we dont scan so bring it on , and there not to keen on using pda because the duties are to big so they can take some off happy days .

[postslippete]

The way I'm reading this is that Royal Mail simply wants to use SISO as a way of documenting the overtime that has been worked. It doesn't say anything about docking workers contractual pay for lateness or for staff leaving early which to the best of my knowledge is a bit more complex legally and should involve disciplinary procedures and warnings before any financial cut.

But there are obvious issues about allocating SISO for overtime. How would it know, for example, which staff have been called in early on overtime and which staff have decided to come in over an hour early unpaid? Would it also pay the staff who are ghosting, the correct overtime? Like someone said without that incentive the COMs will find it difficult to get willing posties to do the work. I'm not convinced that using SISO for overtime is going to improve our productivity.

[matthew68]

I’m confused by this ghost overtime, I thought this had stopped as our manager only pays you over your finish time and that’s it.Basically hardly anyone bothers now and rounds are failing because it’s not worth it, they need to up the overtime rate because who wants to stomp around for actually less money than your contracted hours as no delivery supplement on overtime.Wait until the takeover it will be a complete disaster they just will run the letter side of the business down and try to bully long term posties out. They really don’t care about the staff anymore we are just a number so why do people still come out n early unpaid even at our place where you can’t leave early! Lots don’t take proper break ever and still charge around without claiming! I come in on my time take full break use trolley and cut off or claim and don’t rush around and feel a lot better for it. It’s about time everyone did the same or they will simply put more and more and your walks

[Tman]

=postslippete post_id=1103335 time=1727198269 user_id=65005]
The way I'm reading this is that Royal Mail simply wants to use SISO as a way of documenting the overtime that has been worked. It doesn't say anything about docking workers contractual pay for lateness or for staff leaving early which to the best of my knowledge is a bit more complex legally and should involve disciplinary procedures and warnings before any financial cut.

As usual with RM, it'll come in attached to some pay agreement. Nothing complex legally about it, other firms have been doing it for decades.
Only for overtime? To think it won't be used to see who comes in late, goes early or whatever is pure naivety.

But there are obvious issues about allocating SISO for overtime. How would it know, for example, which staff have been called in early on overtime and which staff have decided to come in over an hour early unpaid?

It wouldn't, so it would be up to some manager to record that he asked old Bert to come in early (so should be paid) and that Harry was trying to work some flanker, so wouldn't.
Don't you think that all the wrinkles would have been ironed out of clocking on systems decades ago now?

[A2B]

Why do think businesses spend £millions on installing such systems?

The same reason the WPC is being pushed to the forefront again, to cut down managers

[TopperGas]

=postslippete post_id=1103335 time=1727198269 user_id=65005]
The way I'm reading this is that Royal Mail simply wants to use SISO as a way of documenting the overtime that has been worked. It doesn't say anything about docking workers contractual pay for lateness or for staff leaving early which to the best of my knowledge is a bit more complex legally and should involve disciplinary procedures and warnings before any financial cut.

As usual with RM, it'll come in attached to some pay agreement. Nothing complex legally about it, other firms have been doing it for decades.
Only for overtime? To think it won't be used to see who comes in late, goes early or whatever is pure naivety.

But there are obvious issues about allocating SISO for overtime. How would it know, for example, which staff have been called in early on overtime and which staff have decided to come in over an hour early unpaid?

It wouldn't, so it would be up to some manager to record that he asked old Bert to come in early (so should be paid) and that Harry was trying to work some flanker, so wouldn't.
Don't you think that all the wrinkles would have been ironed out of clocking on systems decades ago now?

Which is basically what happens now? There must be some reason SISO was, firstly, introduced, and, secondly, is now going to be used to monitor overtime. Perhaps each day the manager will get a list of all the scan in/scan out times on PSP and they'll then just have approve or reject the employee is entitled to OT, no idea what happens if your SISO time is 1hr 30mins over but the manager only agreed 1hr OT!!

[A2B]

SISO is obviously for timekeeping but is also just another way to tie us to the PDA.

Pretty sure that in the not too distant future we will be scanning to say what function we are doing whilst in the DO. Prepping a walk? scan the barcode on the frame. Sorting packets? scan the barcode at the drop frame

RM want to account for every minute we work both indoor and outdoor and via the PDA they can do that. Yes this will take time but look how much the job has changed in the last few years