I agree with all of RM's proposals bar 1

[cloherty1976]

Packets / Parcels people want delivered every day.

Letter deliveries 6 days a week = pointless.

You don't really understand Royal Mail much.
The way the business is set up we have simultaneous letter and parcel deliveries, the bulk of the labour costs are offset against the letter delivery side. This makes letter delivery expensive and unprofitable on paper but what it means because we're already out on the street the parcel business is on paper low cost. This allows us to have some of the lowest pricing levels for parcels in the industry and maintain a customer to customer small parcel stream ( eBay etc ) that would otherwise be economically unsustainable.

The bottom line is without letter deliveries we would need to either massively hike our prices and possibly lose most of our market share or sack the entire workforce and join the likes of Hermes in a dogfight for the low cost market. With the management team we have I would give us about 6 months before Hermes or Yodel swallowed us whole.

Maybe if they bought the company outright they would have a network that would be able to deliver the volume of parcel we deliver.
Do you know the quantities of parcels that are being transported around the country and the size of fleet you need to distribute this too?
Not saying they could not achieve this in long term but the size of network i.e. Sites, vans,logistics and staff would take a lot longer than 6 months but this is a worry if they start growing and we start shrinking.

[Phantom]

After reading this thread I can't believe some people actually think Royal Mail have a plan or vision for the future, are you blind??? The board has no interest in growing, it wants to shrink.

Working 9-5 will not improve services for customers, parcels won't get delivered as most will still be at work - it's utter bollocks to think otherwise.
Later starts for delivery staff is to walk sequence 95% of the indoor work - this is to remove hours and cut jobs
Pension are being cut to pay dividends £800 million so far this could be reinvested but it is not
Privatisation was sold to the staff on the basis RM could borrow money and expand on products and services - they have done nothing of the kind except to asset strip
Private couriers capture next day delivery and start work from 6-7am and are out on the road from 8am if not earlier why are RM planning on delivering from 12pm? - Takes us back to the 95% sequence and is nothing to do with customer focus.

Basically it's all crap and staff are having their pants pulled down - whether you choose to admit it to yourself is up to you, I know why I don't agree with the failure of RM and the proof is front of me everyday, just look at how much mail is being left in and not delivered, this is reality and it's not a joke and the CWU haven't even started yet.

[fishtank]

The minors at least had some leverage. We dont. Do you really think the world will stop because RM doesnt bring them their post/packets. NOPE! Because one of our competitors will. The customer will just use another business.

Isn't that the very definition of leverage?

[UrbanPirate]

Packets / Parcels people want delivered every day.

Letter deliveries 6 days a week = pointless.

You don't really understand Royal Mail much.
The way the business is set up we have simultaneous letter and parcel deliveries, the bulk of the labour costs are offset against the letter delivery side. This makes letter delivery expensive and unprofitable on paper but what it means because we're already out on the street the parcel business is on paper low cost. This allows us to have some of the lowest pricing levels for parcels in the industry and maintain a customer to customer small parcel stream ( eBay etc ) that would otherwise be economically unsustainable.

The bottom line is without letter deliveries we would need to either massively hike our prices and possibly lose most of our market share or sack the entire workforce and join the likes of Hermes in a dogfight for the low cost market. With the management team we have I would give us about 6 months before Hermes or Yodel swallowed us whole.

I disagree. Without RM having to deliver letters with the USO they would save a fortune on staffing as they would only have to employ enough people to make the packets deliveries and all the savings that come with it. Why do you think no other company will touch letters with a barge pole?

[UrbanPirate]

The minors at least had some leverage. We dont. Do you really think the world will stop because RM doesnt bring them their post/packets. NOPE! Because one of our competitors will. The customer will just use another business.

Isn't that the very definition of leverage?

Im saying we will not have support or pressure from the public. Yes it would pressure RM management. But they could get by by delivering packets to businesses and our big customers with management and non strikers. Joe public isnt that bothered that is bank statement will be a day late.

[UrbanPirate]

After reading this thread I can't believe some people actually think Royal Mail have a plan or vision for the future, are you blind??? The board has no interest in growing, it wants to shrink.

Working 9-5 will not improve services for customers, parcels won't get delivered as most will still be at work - it's utter bollocks to think otherwise.

Most are at work as it is. It is not to satisfy the receiver. It is to satisfy the sender. Next day delivery is a much sort after thing

Later starts for delivery staff is to walk sequence 95% of the indoor work - this is to remove hours and cut jobs
Correct? and Your point is? Business wants to save money. Shock!
Pension are being cut to pay dividends £800 million so far this could be reinvested but it is not
Privatisation was sold to the staff on the basis RM could borrow money and expand on products and services - they have done nothing of the kind except to asset strip
Part agree with you here. But shareholders have a right to demand dividends. Without them, you dont have many shareholders, without shareholders you dont have much of a business
Private couriers capture next day delivery and start work from 6-7am and are out on the road from 8am if not earlier why are RM planning on delivering from 12pm? - Takes us back to the 95% sequence and is nothing to do with customer focus.
Because they don't have to wait for the letters and have to deliver them

Basically it's all crap and staff are having their pants pulled down - whether you choose to admit it to yourself is up to you, I know why I don't agree with the failure of RM and the proof is front of me everyday, just look at how much mail is being left in and not delivered, this is reality and it's not a joke and the CWU haven't even started yet.

And do you seriously believe a company as large as RM that has existed for 500 years has no idea what its doing? It knows exactly what its doing. You just dont like it.

[fishtank]

I'm saying we will not have support or pressure from the public.

Are you looking for the stating the bleeding obvious award?
We never have had and I've done this a good few times now but I'm not having an issue with Joe Public. I want to put pressure on Royal Mail management.

[UrbanPirate]

I'm saying we will not have support or pressure from the public.

Are you looking for the stating the bleeding obvious award?
We never have had and I've done this a good few times now but I'm not having an issue with Joe Public. I want to put pressure on Royal Mail management.

I dont think the pressure will be enough though. As they will have enough people/managers to cover the tracked packets at least on the strike days. They will manage to service our most important customers with the rest barely noticing a difference. So where is the pressure really going to come from?

[Phantom]

After reading this thread I can't believe some people actually think Royal Mail have a plan or vision for the future, are you blind??? The board has no interest in growing, it wants to shrink.

Working 9-5 will not improve services for customers, parcels won't get delivered as most will still be at work - it's utter bollocks to think otherwise.

Most are at work as it is. It is not to satisfy the receiver. It is to satisfy the sender. Next day delivery is a much sort after thing

Later starts for delivery staff is to walk sequence 95% of the indoor work - this is to remove hours and cut jobs
Correct? and Your point is? Business wants to save money. Shock!
Pension are being cut to pay dividends £800 million so far this could be reinvested but it is not
Privatisation was sold to the staff on the basis RM could borrow money and expand on products and services - they have done nothing of the kind except to asset strip
Part agree with you here. But shareholders have a right to demand dividends. Without them, you dont have many shareholders, without shareholders you dont have much of a business
Private couriers capture next day delivery and start work from 6-7am and are out on the road from 8am if not earlier why are RM planning on delivering from 12pm? - Takes us back to the 95% sequence and is nothing to do with customer focus.
Because they don't have to wait for the letters and have to deliver them

Basically it's all crap and staff are having their pants pulled down - whether you choose to admit it to yourself is up to you, I know why I don't agree with the failure of RM and the proof is front of me everyday, just look at how much mail is being left in and not delivered, this is reality and it's not a joke and the CWU haven't even started yet.

And do you seriously believe a company as large as RM that has existed for 500 years has no idea what its doing? It knows exactly what its doing. You just dont like it.

No I don't like what it is doing, running down into the ground with no future, you must obviously want that eh? Cos that's where we are heading.

[UrbanPirate]

"No I don't like what it is doing, running down into the ground with no future, you must obviously want that eh? Cos that's where we are heading."

Its not running it down into the ground though. Its a company restructuring itself to make itself more competitive.

[cloherty1976]

I'm saying we will not have support or pressure from the public.

Are you looking for the stating the bleeding obvious award?
We never have had and I've done this a good few times now but I'm not having an issue with Joe Public. I want to put pressure on Royal Mail management.

I dont think the pressure will be enough though. As they will have enough people/managers to cover the tracked packets at least on the strike days. They will manage to service our most important customers with the rest barely noticing a difference. So where is the pressure really going to come from?

Can’t see the managers delivering the volume of tracked and more importantly special deliveries as the volumes are huge. Remember it has to be distributed to the delivery offices first which is massive undertaking.

[rogersh]

Holland nah reduced USO from 6 to 5 days a week.Ram it.

A reduced USO makes perfect sense for non business customers.
Packets / Parcels people want delivered every day.

Letter deliveries 6 days a week = pointless.
It's nearly all junk - even my ageing parents say that.
Total waste of time.
The bulk of people in this country pay bills by direct debit - pay for goods via card payments / paypal online.
Most people under 40 haven't even got a cheque book.

I paid my road fund licence online without a single piece of paper needed.

This will only continue.

A 6 day USO is simply not required for letters.
Magazines are moving to online only.
The days of screwfix etc posting mail are numbered.

IN 10 years time RM will only be here if everyone wakes up to the fact that parcels are the future.

Stop hankering for the good old days they are gone.

EDITED by rogersh

15 July 2013

The outlook for UK mail volumes to 2023

This document has been prepared by PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP (“PwC” or “we”) for Royal Mail Group….

Objectives • Royal Mail Group commissioned PwC to provide an independent view on the long-term outlook for UK mail volumes • Our projections use information and analysis from a variety of sources, including Royal Mail Group • However, our conclusions have been reached independently. Our projections are based on our own insights and analysis, supported by an extensive programme of interviews, surveys and industry research • We have projected mail volumes (letters and parcels) on an annual basis over the period 2013 to 2023.

We expect the decline of letter volumes to continue but at a slower rate over the projection period.

• We expect the rate of e-substitution in letters to slow gradually over the next 10 years. In the initial years of e-substitution consumers with a high propensity to switch move rapidly online, as do many lower-value communications • As time goes on, the remaining base becomes more skewed towards ‘paperloyal’ consumers and those being sent higher value communications. We expect demographic changes and technology evolution to have a less prominent impact on this segment • A return to GDP growth as the recession ends is likely to increase overall communication volumes, partially offsetting the declining share of letters in overall communication, particularly for Direct Mail • Declines in letter volumes will also continue to be partially offset by robust growth of parcels traffic, driven by specific categories of online shopping •


Our projection suggests letter volume declines of c.4% p.a. and parcel growth of c.3% p.a. from 2013 to 2023

We therefore expect the overall UK inland mail volumes to continue to decline albeit more slowly than we have seen historically - Letters: 5% p.a. decline 2013-18; 4% p.a. decline 2018-23 - Parcels: 3% p.a. increase 2013-18; 2% p.a. increase 2018-23 - Overall: 4% p.a. decline 2013-18; 3% p.a. decline 2018-23 • Despite the slowing rate of decline in overall mail, these projections imply a significant reduction from current levels of paper communication by 2023, as well as a substantial change in mix (we believe parcels will double their share of the mail bag to c.21%) • We have identified a number of risks to our projections which might increase the rate of mail decline over the projection period. The potential impact of these is illustrated in Section 5 of the report.



by dingo » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:35 pm

Lets not miss the facts last year we delivered 15 billion letters compared to 1.5 billion parcels. So when they say letters are in decline , we still deliver significantly more letters than parcels.

[UrbanPirate]

"

Can’t see the managers delivering the volume of tracked and more importantly special deliveries as the volumes are huge. Remember it has to be distributed to the delivery offices first which is massive undertaking.[/quote]

That's are fair point. Id completely forgot someone had to get it to the office in the first place!

[Tman]

[
No I don't like what it is doing, running down into the ground with no future, you must obviously want that eh? Cos that's where we are heading.

Yep, that's the aspiration of every stock-holder in every large (ex) FTSE100 company...to run it into the ground and lose their investment.
Just like all the Monday morning football managers...just ask Joe Postie where it's all going wrong (allegedly)

[banner]

Amazing to see all the doom and gloom placed on the postal market.

Lets have some facts:

1. The number of letters Royal mail deal with is still higher than the boom time for letters in the 80's.
2. At this moment, this great amount of letters is delivered by the fewest number of postmen/women ever.
3. Letter sized packets going up to small bulky parcels are higher than ever and still growing and it can never be economical for courier firms to deliver these items.
4. The letters market is changing but it is going nowhere, there is a demand for letters and no-one else is going to deliver this service unless the USO is drastically altered, which it has already been promised wouldn't happen.
5. Royal mail is in the best position out of all businesses to deliver any larger bulkier items because it already visits every address most days, at any time it could decide to out compete other firms by pricing them as a loss leader.


I find some of the arguments on here quite trite regarding postal workers, we've heard it all before. Postal workers have gone along with virtually all the modernisation agenda and accepted 10's of thousands of job losses, altered the structure of their working lives and they have done this knowing that they are sold the lie that they are a part of some totally open free market where they should be grateful for a bowl of porridge after a days work, but they know that this is a lie while there is a thing called the USO.
It is this which makes a great part of this industry operate in a part false market with royal mail having a natural monopoly on letters and small parcels and the only defense against an endless onslaught on their terms is to stand together in a union and so the hard free marketers on here can go do one because we aren't buying it.