CWU support of Jeremy Corbyn

[Tman]

"jetblack we'll know we have a civilised society when we have finally stop telling our innocent young sons, who we pay to go kill and be killed, that they are heroic.
A lot of lies, a lot of waste, suffering and futility - but not much heroism. The heroism is in the standing up alone and questioning the warmongers/paymasters motives.

Same old same old. It's OK though, because some other mother's son went off to fight so you can talk the same old same old.
Most people grow out of that lofty idealistic hippie phase when they leave Uni....you and old Jezza clearly didn't.

[dvbuk55]

Do you know something jet, I and my brothers, a wife of one and two nephews served in the armed forces for well over 100 years, one still serving and one doing security work in Iraq.

Yes, you needn't have said - I could have guessed it. Its an honourable profession, so long as the politicians have mobilised you in good faith and rightful purpose.

I wouldn't call the years we served in good times and in bad wasted, I would say more patriotic.

You were getting paid to do what you were told - and what you were told to do you didn't question. Even now you don't, and you are retired and entitled to.

You see some of us aren't afraid and want to hide in the shadows we faced whatever we had to and acted accordingly.

Heroism takes many different forms.

Chelsea Manning was found guilty by a court martial in the USA for treason, now what does his attempt at suicide tell you and why is it more significant than anyone who attempts suicide?

Chelsea Manning has been crucified for telling the truth. She shed a (very small) light on the atrocities that are being perpetrated in our names, and was crucified for it. Have a look at the July 12, 2007 Baghdad airstrike - or, the Granai Massacre. And as we both know, they are two drops in the ocean.


To bring all this back on topic (because I don't want this to degenerate into personal attacks), the Chilcott Report uequivocally detailed that there were in fact, as many of us knew at the time, no grounds whatsoever for the invasion of a country most British nationals (patriotic or not) could not pinpoint on a map.
It would therefore seem incumbent upon, in my view, those politicians who were complicit in giving the go ahead for such an invasion, the requirement to do the right thing and resign - given that up to 1 million (largely innocent) lives have been lost in the conflict to date.

Jeremy Corbyn was not amongst their number.


Or am I missing something here ? Doesn't a million lives amount to much these days ? Not till its in your face and on your doorstep ?

Resign - NOW - and, if you have a soul, beg forgiveness that it might be saved.

I was happy to be deployed wherever and whenever and as for being paid for it I kid you not when I joined originally as a boy I was paid LESS than I was paid for delivering daily newspapers and was still happy to serve.

Tell me jet what do you think Jezza would have done faced with Hitler, I mean would he have armed forces at all, how about armed police, how about terrorists - do you think he'd want to hug them and kiss them and say sorry for the sins of the past. Yes heroism does take many forms, however I don't recall there being any awards for hiding.

War without a shadow of a doubt has consequences, the first world war had terrible consequences for the young men of many nations, the second 6 million jews apart from other ethnic minorities together with armed forces and all conflicts since. So was the 1st, 2nd, Korean and other less major conflicts necessary?

We don't have remembrance day for nothing it's to remember ALL the lives lost in conflict and conflict, in my experience, is the nature of the beast.

[dvbuk55]

"jetblack we'll know we have a civilised society when we have finally stop telling our innocent young sons, who we pay to go kill and be killed, that they are heroic.
A lot of lies, a lot of waste, suffering and futility - but not much heroism. The heroism is in the standing up alone and questioning the warmongers/paymasters motives.

Same old same old. It's OK though, because some other mother's son went off to fight so you can talk the same old same old.
Most people grow out of that lofty idealistic hippie phase when they leave Uni....you and old Jezza clearly didn't.

Well I'm afraid Jezza didn't actually go to university he went to a polytechnic and dropped out, he's also a vegetarian - which says something and his first wife was less than enamoured with him and left because he wasn't romantic but spent all his time photo copying for the labour party - oh by the way she is now a professor, whilst he is a destroyer of labour values in the modern world - oh and he's been married three times

[jetblack]

When Stalin told his troops: "Fighting for one’s oil is fighting for one’s freedom" , he's a butcher. When Tony Blair says "Fighting for Iraqs oil is fighting for ones freedom", nobody bats an eyelid.

Oh - hold on - he never actually said that did he ?

Tell me jet what do you think Jezza would have done faced with Hitler

Godwins Law

We are talking about the Middle East in the 21st century. We are talking about Houston, Texas pulling billions$ out of Iraqs oilfields, their miltary cohorts maintaining a destabilisation in the region that Exon might more reliably extort said revenues - meanwhile your nephew is going to work for Blackwater not knowing if he's going to get to see his kids again by the end of his shift, and a good half of the French population is too s**t scared to even visit the shopping mall anymore.

..conflict, in my experience, is the nature of the beast.

In my experience, when people pull together against the trials and tribulations that the world naturally throws up ie.not conflict brought about through the greed of men, then we are all better off for it.
"What ye do unto the least of my brethren, ye do unto me."

With respect DVB, what are you doing posting on a thread about the ins and outs of Jeremy Corbyns future in the Labour Party ? You aren't a socialist are you, that much is obvious ? You have no skin in this particular game.

Vote Lib Dem mate - the choice is yours. Or for Thatcher - or whoever is todays stand in.

[jetblack]

I don't know about this Owen Smith Johnny come lately.

Owen Smith worked as PR chief for biotech firm hit by $762m fine

Someone asked up thread about which industries I'd nationalise. I forgot to mention some of the parasitic drug companies that are extorting billions from the UK taxpayer via supplying the NHS. The NHS oxygen supplier is one of them (used to be BOC, not sure today) - and, whoda thought it, turns out Owen Smith had a very high profile job for another such parasitic company, Pfizer.

[dvbuk55]

Oh I'm a socialist right enough and a card carrying member of the labour party once over, just not the sort of socialist who harks back to the past to form any sort of coherent manifesto that relates to the 21st century. Tell me seriously now do you really think that the modern market would allow the privatisation of all the companies on your wish list? Get real jet it's never going to happen. What labour needs is to reinvent new labour again with a new Tony Blair like leader, persuasive, charismatic and a communicator at all levels not some grey bearded old man, Christ he's nearly as old as I am. Labour needs to be looking to cultivate a new leader in time for the next election one who is acceptable to all levels of the party and not the narrow leftist members. There just aren't enough of that ilk to create a workable parliamentary party. As for Owen Smiths previous employment, who cares, everyone has to earn a crust.

I mean most people running for office in this country would be reluctant to admit:

Jeremy Corbyn spoke of his admiration for one of the founders of communism, Karl Marx.

Seriously? Does he really want to take us down that route? All right minded people should avoid his politics like the plague, the mans a menace to democracy.

[jetblack]

Tell me seriously now do you really think that the modern market would allow the nationalisation of all the companies on your wish list?

The modern market ? LOL. What, Goldman Sachs ?

China has all I would nationalise nationalised x10 - and they are not only the largest economy in the world, but the economic success story of the last 30 years. And it aint gonna change any time soon.

just to be clear - China is implementing, to massive success, the 1918 Clause iv - and letting the market in around the edges.

It works.

Just not for Goldman Sachs. And Tony Blair.

[fishtank]

China is an oppressive faux communist oligarchy that uses its main resource people to make a tiny minority of its population rich in exactly the same way that the city of London does. The vast majority of the population are dirt poor and starving. Once the wheels come off you will see famine of biblical proportions.

To get back to Corbyn, he's an intellectual socialist, all theory but no practical understanding of what drives the working class, the clue is in the name...work. People aren't looking for a radical new world order, they simply want a slightly fairer version of the old one which despite what some would have you believe and despite its flaws actually works quite well in improving the lot of the working classes.

[dvbuk55]

I don't know how you can equate the poor of yesterday to todays workers. In the 50s there was no HP, no TV and the annual holidays was a day trip to the nearest beach. Food was scarce because money was scarce, I can remember eating pobs, which was bread soaked in a small amount of hot water with salt and pepper or an oxo cube, an alternative was bread and milk. Corbyn goes on about food banks but when I was little there wasn't any food banks you had to make do with what you could get and afford. Lots of workers now are widely travelled with annual foreign holidays and in my opinion some "poor people" have their priorities wrong, queuing at the food bank smoking

Corbyn has never gone hungry nor made a meaningful decision in his entire life. The UK is run on a capitalist system in these modern times and it works.

[jetblack]

Could Len McCluskey be right ? MI5 using "dark practices" to discredit Jeremy Corbyn

Before you write him off as a conspiracy theorist, have a read about Joe Gormley and his involvement with MI5/Special Branch as the leader of the NUM. Gormley didn't like the left wingers apparently



Prepare yourself over the coming weeks for mass media and state propoganda of the highest order in relation to Jeremy Corbyn. There is a lot at stake.




One thing is for sure - they've tried snidy ridicule, and it aint working.

Another sure thing - Corbyn isn't on MI5's payroll

edit. any CWU top brass here had any "approaches" ?

[dvbuk55]

Could Len McCluskey be right ? MI5 using "dark practices" to discredit Jeremy Corbyn

You don't need MI5 to discredit Corbyn jet, he does that all by himself, threatening MPs with deselection on boundary changes, reputed bullying of members, he's a weasel of a man parading down the road yesterday with a bunch of I wouldn't like to say. I believe that he is behind much of the bullying tactics but uses that smug expression denying it happens and yet it is done in his name. The majority of the labour MPs are already talking of a breakaway group should he win and wouldn't that be a tragedy in the making.

[Tman]

Dear old jet's still enamoured of the conspiracy theories, when in reality it's more than a parallel for many football clubs' managerial woes-
"He plays such pure football" the pundits purr, "aye, all the lads in the changing room love the gaffer" say the cliché's, but when the inexorable slide down the table means that the money-paying plebs are starting to stay away, nothing can save him...dead man walking and all that.
Then again, if somebody can somehow equate clause iv to modern day China then there really is no hope of seeing the true picture.

[fishtank]

MI5 is a government body.
The government loves Corbyn more than Labour members do.
With Corbyn in place any brand of socialism is toxic and will never get anywhere near power.
Where's the motivation for MI5 discrediting Corbyn?

I would more likely believe that MI5 would be flooding the Labour membership with Corbyn "fanboys", it would make more sense from their point of view.

[dvbuk55]

-"He plays such pure football" the pundits purr, "aye, all the lads in the changing room love the gaffer".

I'm a Man u supporter and Van Gaal was purring "the Van Gaal philosophy" much like Corbyns philosophy, sounds good in theory but in practice, "ve haf 62% of the play" but still lost 2-0 and that will be the sorry tale of Corbyn and his ilk, he may have support in the CLP but that isn't going to win them the game, sad, deluded bunch of losers. As for his hope that there will be a broad sweep to the left amongst MPs up for selection, he'll never live to see the day.

[jetblack]

China's post is in state hands, bit like ours was for several hundred years :-

"Solely owned by the state, China Post Group is a large-scale enterprise established in line with the Law of the People's Republic of China on Industrial Enterprises Owned by the Whole People. The Group engages in postal business in accordance with laws, undertakes the obligations of providing universal postal service, offers special postal services as may be entrusted by the Chinese government and conducts commercial"


Either they are commie unelectable idiots who are trying to poison our puppy dogs - or we have been had by the 1% Club PLC that own everything.

I wouldn't have said that this is rocket science exactly, but judging by how difficult it seems to be for some amongst us to see the glaring truth, maybe it is.

DVB keeps mentioning football managers. Here's a question for you. What happens to a countries national football team when its premier league is sold off on the market to the highest bidder and the state (the people) has no part to play ?
The 1% have an absolutely superb nose for sniffing out places that they might extract value. Football is a no brainer. Shame for the national team though, hey ?

The government loves Corbyn more than Labour members do.

No they don't. Far from it - don't let them kid you.
Corbyn is the biggest threat they've faced in 30 odd years.