WE HATE THEM BUT DON'T WALK INTO THE TRAP

[pinstripe]

I think the problem arises when the lurkers deliberately post messages that are guaranteed to incite us, sometimes no matter how well constructed and concise an answer is, they then inflame the situation even further until they get the response they want, usually a swearing and slagging match. We're by no means perfect and should not rise to the bait, but what sometimes starts of as reasonable, quickly turns into a vicious argument. If it happened in a pub, punches would be thrown. You only need to look back a few weeks to read the posts of 'moan moan moan' and his alter ego to see how easily the lurkers can wind us up. I was hoping that now the deal has gone through, management would leave this site alone, but, like the vote, I've been disappointed again.

I do have a very simple solution, when someone is on an obvious wind up, just type "SHUT UP"
We are all (well ok, some) guilty of responding to these wind ups, but as this is now an obvious attempt by management to reduce the impact of the site and thereby our communication with each other we must be very careful. I come on here to have a laugh, to see what's happening in other offices and to catch up on the gossip. not to be harangued or victimised by RM. As a previous poster has said, RM would rather expend energy and resources in slapping us down publicly than building a decent company to work for, so
"Let's be careful out there!"
P.S excellent post Lovejoy, I don't always agree with what you say, but it's always worth listening to.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I don't always agree with what you say, but it's always worth listening to.

This is what everyone should be aiming for .

[DirtyHarry]

there's some very clever people there.

unfortunately they will not use that intelligence to improve the business, but to victimise and persecute employees who dare to think differently from their herd.

it's a culture that stifles innovation in and rewards mediocracy.

Very true, more's the pity.

[norbet colon]

there's some very clever people there.

unfortunately they will not use that intelligence to improve the business, but to victimise and persecute employees who dare to think differently from their herd.

it's a culture that stifles innovation in and rewards mediocracy.

Very true, more's the pity.

too clever by half & devious to the point of being neurotic or thick as two short planks due to arrogance , like overgrown prefects in a minor public school at best , at worst belligerent & juvenile , mediocracy has always "shined " in Royal Mail but it's now a more aggressive mediocracy.

There's always been "boy's clubs " & puppet masters but now it's very much more regimented . Overgrown cadets in suits toeing big Al's line .

I agree about the pro-RM lurkers , it's all about baiting people , form of bullying from a so called zero tolerance organisation. I'd be annoyed with myself . In another Industry we had a failed Area Manager saying I'd love a driver to knock me out as I'd be on the floor pointing & saying your'e sacked .Childish or what !

RM will expend energy slapping you all down , it takes people's eyes of the bigger picture , which is deskilling , cowboy corporate contracting out , part time casuals , poorer service , sectorisation and part privatisation . Hellmail do a drip , drip effect with it's constant union & 50's public service ethos posties bashing as they've to keep their advertisers happy like most magazines .

There's method in their madness as RM will go for the drip, drip effect and try to have you all believing the gospel according to St Spiv , same goes for all the lazy posties making time nonsense in the papers for Joe Public .

80's Private =Good & Public =Bad , Leighton is just a lucky gambler waiting for his next opportunity , it may come with EEC Liberalisation , further down the RM food chain ;
Managers will be looking to prove themselves for buy outs & it's happened in other industries , hence all this harder nosed than thou stuff.

It's not just the far left that do agitation .


-that's the attitude , though RM has always been autocratic

[saru]

there's some very clever people there.

unfortunately they will not use that intelligence to improve the business, but to victimise and persecute employees who dare to think differently from their herd.

it's a culture that stifles innovation in and rewards mediocracy.

Very true, more's the pity.

I totally agree. Unfortunately, the managers that I have seen with a spark of intelligence don't seem to have the organisational skills to go with it. Or maybe they're not allowed to make decisions without having them "rubber stamped" by those above them. The ones without that spark are mostly bullies, pure & simple, & don't like the idea that an ordinary postie might have more intelligence than them. In fact, I haven't worked for a company in which the general standard of management is so poor.
A sad reflection of the state of the company!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

My own opinion and its one Norbert has posted frequently is that the biggest problem with Royal Mail is that information and decision making takes only 1 direction in royal mail - downwards.

There is no process for Posties/workers to pass on ideas or to report where they think the system is failing. In the forces (well at least the RAF) they have a system where anyone in the chain of command who sees something that can be improved, or report on something that affects the safety of personnel, and its all done in the strictest confidence as you don't have to give any personal details. Why cant Royal Mail bring in a similar system, its more likely to make posties and managers feel a valued part of the business than these colleagueshares ever will.

[Ex RM Manager]

My own opinion and its one Norbert has posted frequently is that the biggest problem with Royal Mail is that information and decision making takes only 1 direction in royal mail - downwards.

There is no process for Posties/workers to pass on ideas or to report where they think the system is failing. In the forces (well at least the RAF) they have a system where anyone in the chain of command who sees something that can be improved, or report on something that affects the safety of personnel, and its all done in the strictest confidence as you don't have to give any personal details. Why cant Royal Mail bring in a similar system, its more likely to make posties and managers feel a valued part of the business than these colleagueshares ever will.

This is very true. In a recent test I sat for a new job i was given a 100% score in Innovation. I was constantly fighting scared jobsworths who feared clever change and embraced change-for-changes-sake. I came up with many ideas that would've drastically improved the way my business area worked : they ignored them, employed consultants on what-they-felt-was-a-good-deal (£1k per day!) who came forth with... the exact same feckin' ideas! Probably because they went to me, asked me questions, and I gave them suggestions, which they then implemented. The average manager is not allow to make a decision without a ratification from a generally mediocre senior manager who has been promoted just above his competency level, slightly underperforms, and is counting down the years to retirement.

A good brain is sidelined because the only good ideas come from the top in their eyes.

[BELIAL]

A good brain is sidelined because the only good ideas come from the top in their eyes.

No Ex RM any good ideas are appropriated, or accreditied to external consultants. If you are too bright ,you are a direct threat ,a competitor to be quashed. For advancement you must be pliable,controlable,but never challenging.Join the golf club or local lodge ,remember to say yah, it works

[norbet colon]

My own opinion and its one Norbert has posted frequently is that the biggest problem with Royal Mail is that information and decision making takes only 1 direction in royal mail - downwards.

There is no process for Posties/workers to pass on ideas or to report where they think the system is failing. In the forces (well at least the RAF) they have a system where anyone in the chain of command who sees something that can be improved, or report on something that affects the safety of personnel, and its all done in the strictest confidence as you don't have to give any personal details. Why cant Royal Mail bring in a similar system, its more likely to make posties and managers feel a valued part of the business than these colleagueshares ever will.

This is very true. In a recent test I sat for a new job i was given a 100% score in Innovation. I was constantly fighting scared jobsworths who feared clever change and embraced change-for-changes-sake. I came up with many ideas that would've drastically improved the way my business area worked : they ignored them, employed consultants on what-they-felt-was-a-good-deal (£1k per day!) who came forth with... the exact same feckin' ideas! Probably because they went to me, asked me questions, and I gave them suggestions, which they then implemented. The average manager is not allow to make a decision without a ratification from a generally mediocre senior manager who has been promoted just above his competency level, slightly underperforms, and is counting down the years to retirement.

A good brain is sidelined because the only good ideas come from the top in their eyes.

consultants tend to be either 1 Parasites 2 Yes men to do someone's dirty work 3 Only hired because you can't manage in the first place , sorry if I sound jaundiced .
In another industry managers were paid up and then brought back at £500 per week , you wonder if it's all about keeping them sweet and not telling tales out of class.

Classic RM -The Peter Principle , RM has the same problems , the same stereotypes etc ,only to extremes .

[Lounge Lizard]

My own opinion and its one Norbert has posted frequently is that the biggest problem with Royal Mail is that information and decision making takes only 1 direction in royal mail - downwards.

There is no process for Posties/workers to pass on ideas or to report where they think the system is failing. In the forces (well at least the RAF) they have a system where anyone in the chain of command who sees something that can be improved, or report on something that affects the safety of personnel, and its all done in the strictest confidence as you don't have to give any personal details. Why cant Royal Mail bring in a similar system, its more likely to make posties and managers feel a valued part of the business than these colleagueshares ever will.

When I started with Royal Mail the "Welcome" booklet included the message "If you ever want to contact me, I'd be delighted to know whatever suggestions you may have to help us improve the business. Kind regards, Allan Leighton". A couple of times I have e-mailed tell.allan@royalmail.com and, believe it or not, have been well pleased with the responses I received with little delay.
In contrast, my experience of thirty years with the forces, well at least the RAF, is that they're so unbelievably arrogant and complacent in their ivory towers that they've not the slightest interest in anyones opinions except their own - who else would regularly take well over a year to deal with constructive suggestions, and that's with sending them reminders ? And it's not as if they're short staffed, they've layer upon layer of officers with little to do but pass things for referral up and down or sidewards.

[mailsort6]

there's some very clever people there.

unfortunately they will not use that intelligence to improve the business, but to victimise and persecute employees who dare to think differently from their herd.

it's a culture that stifles innovation in and rewards mediocracy.

Very true, more's the pity.

I totally agree. Unfortunately, the managers that I have seen with a spark of intelligence don't seem to have the organisational skills to go with it. Or maybe they're not allowed to make decisions without having them "rubber stamped" by those above them. The ones without that spark are mostly bullies, pure & simple, & don't like the idea that an ordinary postie might have more intelligence than them. In fact, I haven't worked for a company in which the general standard of management is so poor.
A sad reflection of the state of the company!

There are some really intelligent posties within the business, there are alot of posties with degrees (e.g. business study degrees, economic degrees) and have worked for the company for many years, but they are not given a chance, they are undermined by the managers because the managers are frightened that the more educated posties will take their jobs. The company needs to change their working practices and this also includes managers.

[Tman]

[

There are some really intelligent posties within the business, there are alot of posties with degrees (e.g. business study degrees, economic degrees) and have worked for the company for many years, but they are not given a chance, they are undermined by the managers because the managers are frightened that the more educated posties will take their jobs. The company needs to change their working practices and this also includes managers.

Intelligent posties or not, they can still apply for any jobs which come up, so it's nothing to do with not being given a chance, or frightened managers.
Maybe they're just happy being posties?

[DGP1]

[

There are some really intelligent posties within the business, there are alot of posties with degrees (e.g. business study degrees, economic degrees) and have worked for the company for many years, but they are not given a chance, they are undermined by the managers because the managers are frightened that the more educated posties will take their jobs. The company needs to change their working practices and this also includes managers.

Intelligent posties or not, they can still apply for any jobs which come up, so it's nothing to do with not being given a chance, or frightened managers.
Maybe they're just happy being posties?

Most people who can do the managers job well are smart enough to know that they wouldn't be allowed to by senior management and they have no chance of reaching a position in which they can do anything to change the situation.

[mailsort6]

[

There are some really intelligent posties within the business, there are alot of posties with degrees (e.g. business study degrees, economic degrees) and have worked for the company for many years, but they are not given a chance, they are undermined by the managers because the managers are frightened that the more educated posties will take their jobs. The company needs to change their working practices and this also includes managers.

Intelligent posties or not, they can still apply for any jobs which come up, so it's nothing to do with not being given a chance, or frightened managers.
Maybe they're just happy being posties?

Some posties have no chance of becoming managers especially the ones that are strong minded and speak out. The company just want yes men or women, people that are not going to challenge them and do as the senior managers says whether they are wrong or right. Some posties don't even bother applying because they know very well they are not going to get the job.

[Tman]

Some posties have no chance of becoming managers especially the ones that are strong minded and speak out. The company just want yes men or women, people that are not going to challenge them and do as the senior managers says whether they are wrong or right. Some posties don't even bother applying because they know very well they are not going to get the job.

Most people who can do the managers job well are smart enough to know that they wouldn't be allowed to by senior management and they have no chance of reaching a position in which they can do anything to change the situation.

Both of you sound like you're trying to imply there's some sort of conspiracy going on. The promotion boards aren't run by the people who "know" the applicant, so to think that they're being held back for not being yes men or for being too intelligent is dumb.
Normally failed appicants say things like "I was too clever for them" or "I'm not a yes man" as poor excuses for not getting the job, but that doesn't make it true.