I agree with all of RM's proposals bar 1

[Lincox]

Reasonable Pay Increase?
There is no offer of a pay increase. There is an offer of a lump sum for this year only. This lump sum does not even match inflation for this year, so effectively the offer is a real terms pay decrease. How long can you carry on accepting a reduction in your real terms earnings especially as interest rates are about to rise.
The offer for future years is based on productivity and again nothing that will maintain your pay in line with inflationary factors.

DC Pension
I do agree that the DC Scheme is one of the better pensions of this type available, however, it does divide the workforce and whatever the agreement is for pensions whether it be DB or DC it should be the same for all members of the workforce.

Historical Benefits
I cannot agree with you that these should go. These have been earned by some staff over many years of service, and you could say that they are a benefit for the number of years that these people have given to the company. ie Loyalty Reward. Perhaps the name for these benefits could be changed to Loyalty Reward and awarded to all staff after serving specific number of years. Perhaps then they would not be such a sore point.

[Lounge Lizard]

Most people working 9-5 do just that, 9-5.
I can only speak about my office but absolutely no one finishes on time unless they cut off.
These are deliveries that are on average 5 hours plus and a lot approaching 6 these days.
So 9-5 doesn't mean that for most, it means 9-6 or 7 and what about Saturdays ?, if you've not got a duty how likely are you ever going to get a Saturday off ?.

I mean, thats on them. Grow a pair and CUT. OFF!

I do personally but it doesn't change the fact that they've got unrealistic workloads.
And 9-5 means that far more will cut off leaving mail undelivered but also a huge amount of added bullying and harassment.
My point is that you cannot compare 9-5 i other jobs to ours, because how much mail would be undelivered without people doing overtime? And how many contracts would we lose because we couldn't deliver all the mail we have.

Yes they do have unrealistic workloads, yes more people will cut off. This will then in turn help management realise that perhaps they could do with a few more staff. As for bullying and harassment, there are procedures in place to make formal complaints. Speak to the union rep.

Also, these other 9-5 jobs do have pressures on them also. Ours isnt the hardest job in the world, all be it not the easiest either. Its not our job to worry about mail being undelivered due to staffing levels, OT and cut offs. You have a set amount of hours. Stick to them. They can worry about the rest .

Unfortunately changing pipeline will be a core strategic interest for RM to actually accrue NEW customers.

As for "actually accrue NEW customers" I'm sure they and you overestimate what NEW business might possibly be accrued from all those courier companies.
While only interested in chasing after all these possible "NEW customers" RM is neglecting its core business of delivering letters etc. to all addresses every day and is neglecting its staffs' wellbeing.

[Pidleypoo]

Most people working 9-5 do just that, 9-5.
I can only speak about my office but absolutely no one finishes on time unless they cut off.
These are deliveries that are on average 5 hours plus and a lot approaching 6 these days.
So 9-5 doesn't mean that for most, it means 9-6 or 7 and what about Saturdays ?, if you've not got a duty how likely are you ever going to get a Saturday off ?.

I mean, thats on them. Grow a pair and CUT. OFF!

I do personally but it doesn't change the fact that they've got unrealistic workloads.
And 9-5 means that far more will cut off leaving mail undelivered but also a huge amount of added bullying and harassment.
My point is that you cannot compare 9-5 i other jobs to ours, because how much mail would be undelivered without people doing overtime? And how many contracts would we lose because we couldn't deliver all the mail we have.

Yes they do have unrealistic workloads, yes more people will cut off. This will then in turn help management realise that perhaps they could do with a few more staff. As for bullying and harassment, there are procedures in place to make formal complaints. Speak to the union rep.

Also, these other 9-5 jobs do have pressures on them also. Ours isnt the hardest job in the world, all be it not the easiest either. Its not our job to worry about mail being undelivered due to staffing levels, OT and cut offs. You have a set amount of hours. Stick to them. They can worry about the rest .

Unfortunately changing pipeline will be a core strategic interest for RM to actually accrue NEW customers.

I don't worry about it but others do. And all of those procedures are already in place and absolutely nothing gets done about it.
We usually have 10-16 rounds to cover per day and our managers are told by those above they aren't allowed to recruit or advertise deliveries in our office.
Moving the pipeline only increases pressure on all of us when they know our workload is unachievable now.
It's not changing now so why would that change in the future?.

[UrbanPirate]

Reasonable Pay Increase?
There is no offer of a pay increase. There is an offer of a lump sum for this year only. This lump sum does not even match inflation for this year, so effectively the offer is a real terms pay decrease. How long can you carry on accepting a reduction in your real terms earnings especially as interest rates are about to rise.
The offer for future years is based on productivity and again nothing that will maintain your pay in line with inflationary factors.

DC Pension
I do agree that the DC Scheme is one of the better pensions of this type available, however, it does divide the workforce and whatever the agreement is for pensions whether it be DB or DC it should be the same for all members of the workforce.

Historical Benefits
I cannot agree with you that these should go. These have been earned by some staff over many years of service, and you could say that they are a benefit for the number of years that these people have given to the company. ie Loyalty Reward. Perhaps the name for these benefits could be changed to Loyalty Reward and awarded to all staff after serving specific number of years. Perhaps then they would not be such a sore point.

The pay increase is reasonable. I suspect the final offer will be slightly better but not much. The lump sum is just that but will be incorporated into April 2018 onwards with the other increase. Total Increase was something like 2.75% plus bonuses based on productivity. That IS reasonable for now.

The pension has already been divided. It will never go back to being DB. All companies are doing rid of it.

As for people earning their benefit over time and service! What a load of crock. I will work for just as long as them (if not longer!) doing what is now a harder job for longer. Id love them to incorporate some form of loyalty reward but lets be honest with ourselves. Not going to happen.

[Lincox]

You do realise a massive yes vote gives our union the backing it vitally needs from its members to negotiate the kind of deal we all want and deserve .

RM already know the union have the backing of the staff and that the proposals are unpopular. A massive yes vote will deliver nothing to the management they do not already know. But yet here we are. We are being played.

I think you seem to think this massive yes vote is going to be the magic pill the union need to break management. Sorry to break it you, its not.

This is a totally different ball game to past strikes when Royal Mail was run by governments who pulled the strings behind the scenes. We are now talking about shareholders, fund managers,investment companies, all who will be applying pressure to Moya Greene and her cronies to achieve an agreement. The value of their investments will fall like a stone if there is a protracted stale mate. Moya Greene is holding on to see the outcome of the vote and will react accordingly. Good dividends are one thing. Seeing the value of your capital nose dive is a different matter all together.

[UrbanPirate]

Most people working 9-5 do just that, 9-5.
I can only speak about my office but absolutely no one finishes on time unless they cut off.
These are deliveries that are on average 5 hours plus and a lot approaching 6 these days.
So 9-5 doesn't mean that for most, it means 9-6 or 7 and what about Saturdays ?, if you've not got a duty how likely are you ever going to get a Saturday off ?.

I mean, thats on them. Grow a pair and CUT. OFF!

I do personally but it doesn't change the fact that they've got unrealistic workloads.
And 9-5 means that far more will cut off leaving mail undelivered but also a huge amount of added bullying and harassment.
My point is that you cannot compare 9-5 i other jobs to ours, because how much mail would be undelivered without people doing overtime? And how many contracts would we lose because we couldn't deliver all the mail we have.

Yes they do have unrealistic workloads, yes more people will cut off. This will then in turn help management realise that perhaps they could do with a few more staff. As for bullying and harassment, there are procedures in place to make formal complaints. Speak to the union rep.

Also, these other 9-5 jobs do have pressures on them also. Ours isnt the hardest job in the world, all be it not the easiest either. Its not our job to worry about mail being undelivered due to staffing levels, OT and cut offs. You have a set amount of hours. Stick to them. They can worry about the rest .

Unfortunately changing pipeline will be a core strategic interest for RM to actually accrue NEW customers.

I don't worry about it but others do. And all of those procedures are already in place and absolutely nothing gets done about it.
We usually have 10-16 rounds to cover per day and our managers are told by those above they aren't allowed to recruit or advertise deliveries in our office.
Moving the pipeline only increases pressure on all of us when they know our workload is unachievable now.
It's not changing now so why would that change in the future?.

if nothing is being done about bullying and harassment after a complaint is lodged then seek help from outside of the business.

[UrbanPirate]

You do realise a massive yes vote gives our union the backing it vitally needs from its members to negotiate the kind of deal we all want and deserve .

RM already know the union have the backing of the staff and that the proposals are unpopular. A massive yes vote will deliver nothing to the management they do not already know. But yet here we are. We are being played.

I think you seem to think this massive yes vote is going to be the magic pill the union need to break management. Sorry to break it you, its not.

This is a totally different ball game to past strikes when Royal Mail was run by governments who pulled the strings behind the scenes. We are now talking about shareholders, fund managers,investment companies, all who will be applying pressure to Moya Greene and her cronies to achieve an agreement. The value of their investments will fall like a stone if there is a protracted stale mate. Moya Greene is holding on to see the outcome of the vote and will react accordingly. Good dividends are one thing. Seeing the value of your capital nose dive is a different matter all together.

And people also need to pay their bills. RM know that we cant afford to keep it up. Il hedge a guess that the big companies invested in RM will support the modernisation changes being proposed as well. They will lead to larger profits in the long run. I agree it will sink the share price. Great, they can buy more for less and once RM win on this the price will rise again.

[Lincox]

As for people earning their benefit over time and service! What a load of crock. I will work for just as long as them (if not longer!) doing what is now a harder job for longer. Id love them to incorporate some form of loyalty reward but lets be honest with ourselves. Not going to happen.[/quote]

Yes and when and if you are lucky enough to have worked that long for this company you will be entitled. Having retired a few years ago I cannot comment on whether it is a harder job now. No doubt there are different pressures, but I remember having to cycle out to the walk, cycle back, and then out again and back for the second delivery. No vans to climb into to get you out to the walk, or shelter in.

[Lounge Lizard]

As for people earning their benefit over time and service! What a load of crock. I will work for just as long as them (if not longer!) doing what is now a harder job for longer. Id love them to incorporate some form of loyalty reward but lets be honest with ourselves. Not going to happen.

Yes and when and if you are lucky enough to have worked that long for this company you will be entitled. Having retired a few years ago I cannot comment on whether it is a harder job now. No doubt there are different pressures, but I remember having to cycle out to the walk, cycle back, and then out again and back for the second delivery. No vans to climb into to get you out to the walk, or shelter in.[/quote]
Ah yes, cycling, I remember it well, those were the days.
Better than trudging round with a trolley none stop for several hours each day.

[Spedley]

Just seen this thread. Haha! :)

No more comments now please, let it drift to the end of the pile.

[UrbanPirate]

Just seen this thread. Haha! :)

No more comments now please, let it drift to the end of the pile.

Excellent contribution. Go back to sticking your head in the sand

[UrbanPirate]

Spedley, What's changed?

[tpost]

The union seem to think that a big yes vote will put pressure on the RM board and they will compromise, however most of the largest institutional investors take a long term view so if a dispute lasts 3-4 weeks but at the end of it RM can make big savings they will tough it out. I think that a protracted dispute will hit a lot of staff, especially part timers who make up their money by overtime and you will have a drift back to work. It is easy to shout strike and all out on social media but we must remember that in the end there will be a compromise on the issues in dispute. The public will have little sympathy for us once the right wing press start mobilising.I am not being negative but realistic of what could happen.

[UrbanPirate]

The union seem to think that a big yes vote will put pressure on the RM board and they will compromise, however most of the largest institutional investors take a long term view so if a dispute lasts 3-4 weeks but at the end of it RM can make big savings they will tough it out. I think that a protracted dispute will hit a lot of staff, especially part timers who make up their money by overtime and you will have a drift back to work. It is easy to shout strike and all out on social media but we must remember that in the end there will be a compromise on the issues in dispute. The public will have little sympathy for us once the right wing press start mobilising.I am not being negative but realistic of what could happen.

This. The most worrying thing is that people cant see it. The union don't seem to see it and they are the ones doing the negotiating spouting all this rise up nonsense. Quite scary really. Naive and quite frankly rank amateur.

[fishtank]

Spedley, What's changed?

The cost of living?
Having to save more for retirement due to a poorer pension?
Increased childcare costs due to changes in the pipeline?
Reduction in potential working life due to increased outdoor workload?
Reduced overtime opportunities due to annualised hours.
Potentially more punitive sick absence policy.

There are plenty of reasons why making a job more demanding both physically and financially should result in higher pay. It's a capitalist supply/ demand thing. Would many people do the delivery job for minimum wage and what kind of staff would you attract.

One of the reasons Wistl couldn't make the end to end game work was the extremely high turnover of staff and associated training and security vetting costs.