LINE MANAGERS QUESTIONING

[Brainache]

No, the amount of overtime to claim is the amount of time you go over. We are contracted to absorb the election material for Xp an item.
We dont have to do unpaid overtime just because there are election leaflets in our bundles.

[The_Wax_Man]

I worked over today and have done so all week, he questioned what time i left the office when i went on delivery, he seen me leave the office i also signed out, he also asked me how long i had spent throwing in another walk which is not on his section, i told him i did'nt know. ....

^^ This

From the managers side of the fence, you could come across as very well aware of what time you are going over but not how long your prepping, sorting etc takes.

To win any of the arguments, you need to record, log your movements, times, prep rate etc or you may just fall into their games and in any part of the world, an answer of ' I don't know', never wins.

Record your times, work you doing and spiel it back like a robot if they start questioning you.


Give them no room to pick

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

No, the amount of overtime to claim is the amount of time you go over. We are contracted to absorb the election material for Xp an item.
We dont have to do unpaid overtime just because there are election leaflets in our bundles.

Erm actually have you read the ltb announcement at the top of the page covering election payments



4 There should be no extended delivery overtime for poll cards and ‘Election communication’ candidate mail (unit payments are made instead).

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I think clause 4 is more designed to stop people delivering all the polling cards/election leaflets in one go, and claim overtime for it, rather than stop overtime on them altogether.

Also as the agreement seems to be payment only for delivery, what happens when its the preparation of the election stuff that takes you over not the delivery. There would then be, in my eyes a legitimate claim for overtime, as long as you haven't taken them all.

[dodgyinlaws]

I worked over today and have done so all week, he questioned what time i left the office when i went on delivery, he seen me leave the office i also signed out, he also asked me how long i had spent throwing in another walk which is not on his section, i told him i did'nt know. ....

^^ This

From the managers side of the fence, you could come across as very well aware of what time you are going over but not how long your prepping, sorting etc takes.

To win any of the arguments, you need to record, log your movements, times, prep rate etc or you may just fall into their games and in any part of the world, an answer of ' I don't know', never wins.

Record your times, work you doing and spiel it back like a robot if they start questioning you.


Give them no room to pick

So where is the line drawn when constant questioning becomes constant bullying.

[fishtank]

The election agreement throws up a couple of anomalies, overtime is voluntary, if delivering election material causes you to incur overtime then strictly speaking you would have the right to refuse to deliver it but the agreement makes it very difficult to do that especially on a day to day basis, as teebs points out there is no specific mention of preparation but in most cases it's the prep that causes the OT and what happens if you're double prepping or even prepping lapsing duties? Who gets paid and if you don't get paid for prepping it, could you refuse or would it be a reasonable instruction if you made someone do it?

As with the overrunning delivery procedure, perhaps rather than just cut&paste the previous year's agreement maybe Uncle Bob could look at updating it to better reflect the changes in th job since he last ventured out on delivery.

[postslippete]

Its a good management technique to ask staff general questions


Like instead of asking an individual can you move those cages away from the entrance doors pronto - its probably better if a lino threw up a question like "Should these cages be left near the doors?? Don't let so-so see it otherwise he/she will probably give us a silly huddle about health+safety again!!"

Or if someone has forgot to do their redirections instead of telling them directly to go and do their redirections, its probably better if a manager asked a general question to an individual that hasn't done his redirections and asking them if everyone has done their redirections? In this way, you are not targeting anyone or telling people what to do all the time.


Now, I am not in the faintest bit interested in man management at all BUT the point I am making is that we could use the same techniques to ask the managers questions when we want the collapse/ work taken off us on a busy day. I've seen too many posties in our office moan about the workloads all morning and then march in the office last minute and tell the manager that they are not taking it and wonder why a manager gives them such a hard time!!

Its just better to ask general questions. If its a busy day just ask the line manager what the mail traffic forecast is? If you think that the collapse will take you over your time, and you don't wish to do it, then ask him/her what they would like to do? Don't just tell them that you are not taking it! You have to let a manager make that decision. If they ask you if you could be flexible by working past your time today and claiming for it - and you really don't have to by the way - then point to the day/s in the week where you have been flexible in taking the collapse, for example. Or you could say "Well, the collapse will take me about an hour over my time today, I understand that you don't have the manpower to cover the deliveries today, so can I finish earlier by one hour tomorrow??" (get it down in writing!). I guarantee a lot of managers will be completely taken aback by this!!

I had one relief manager who wanted me to take all the mail out on that day and then ring him up at 1pm to see where I was....I decided to call his bluff (literally) and took his name and mobile number. I then notified the local rep what would happen if he didn't answer his phone? He said exactly what I was thinking - that my phone calls would be logged on my phone and that it was just a tactic he was using to get me to deliver all the mail. And the fact is, it was my choice if I wanted to work past my time Its what's in my employment contract anyway. Of course, this manager was preying on the fact that I wouldn't end up bringing the mail back to the office because of wilful delay and the threat of the conduct code. So when I went back to the manager and told him this - he quickly changed his mind and told me to leave the extra bit in the office!!

I know if I was the target of unnecessary intimidation and petty bullying from a manager then I would have no hesitation in ringing the bullying and harassment team on 0800 587 4777. I would also tell the manager my reasons beforehand too! I am sure the Royal Mail senior management team want us all to be working harder and delivering longer but not at the expense of going on sick for stress. The important thing is to be fair.

Times are hard these days, and I empathise with line managers at times, because they get it in the neck with their superiors as well as us. The overrunning procedure really does need updating. Its clear that some managers are getting dirty with their tactics and we really need to stay one step ahead of the curve...

[Brainache]

No, the amount of overtime to claim is the amount of time you go over. We are contracted to absorb the election material for Xp an item.
We dont have to do unpaid overtime just because there are election leaflets in our bundles.

Erm actually have you read the ltb announcement at the top of the page covering election payments



4 There should be no extended delivery overtime for poll cards and ‘Election communication’ candidate mail (unit payments are made instead).

Erm, that is what I said - election mail is absorbed into our duty time in exchange for unit payments. The ltb doesnt say anything about doing unpaid O/T. If you dont have time to do normal mail + election mail, you either book it or manager gets someone else to do the excess.

[fishtank]

The LTB relates to extended delivery, the reason it says there should be no extended delivery overtime is simply because it's expected that the OPG will manage the delivery of election material sensibly using the 3 or 7 days allocated to deliver the material.

To be honest if it's managed properly you shouldn't really be going over your time but that also assumes that it's being managed properly by management. Preparation seems to be where things fall down but that's not extended delivery overtime is it?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

No, the amount of overtime to claim is the amount of time you go over. We are contracted to absorb the election material for Xp an item.
We dont have to do unpaid overtime just because there are election leaflets in our bundles.

Erm actually have you read the ltb announcement at the top of the page covering election payments



4 There should be no extended delivery overtime for poll cards and ‘Election communication’ candidate mail (unit payments are made instead).

Erm, that is what I said - election mail is absorbed into our duty time in exchange for unit payments. The ltb doesnt say anything about doing unpaid O/T. If you dont have time to do normal mail + election mail, you either book it or manager gets someone else to do the excess.

Your not supposed to claim ot for the election element so if you duty length is 7hours and you have 6hours 30 of normal work plus 1 hour of election work you are not supposed to be claiming the extra half hour as ot

[TrueBlueTerrier]

But just because you are delivering Election stuff doesn't mean you cannot claim overtime. If the traffic levels are above the model week, without including the election stuff, then you can and should claim.

If you elect to take all Election Material in one day then you cannot claim if that is the reason you went over.

To be frank, if you are an experienced postie and if you have 3 days or 7 days to deliver it, and you can't organise your work so that you don't go over unless you want to, then perhaps more training is required.

We have had 3 unaddressed come in over 3 days and 4 addressed come in over a week, didn't have to work over, or claim overtime once. It just takes planning, communication and organisation.

[Brainache]

No, the amount of overtime to claim is the amount of time you go over. We are contracted to absorb the election material for Xp an item.
We dont have to do unpaid overtime just because there are election leaflets in our bundles.

Erm actually have you read the ltb announcement at the top of the page covering election payments



4 There should be no extended delivery overtime for poll cards and ‘Election communication’ candidate mail (unit payments are made instead).

Erm, that is what I said - election mail is absorbed into our duty time in exchange for unit payments. The ltb doesnt say anything about doing unpaid O/T. If you dont have time to do normal mail + election mail, you either book it or manager gets someone else to do the excess.

Your not supposed to claim ot for the election element so if you duty length is 7hours and you have 6hours 30 of normal work plus 1 hour of election work you are not supposed to be claiming the extra half hour as ot

So are you saying you should do that half hour unpaid ? Ridiculous. In your example the one hour of election work has been absorbed into the duty time because that is why we are paid Xp per item. The half hour over is excess O/T. Nowhere does it say we are expected to do unpaid hours (ie work while off duty) because we have election stuff in a bundle. You interpret rules as if they are the masters and we are the serfs.

[BingBong]

How far can a line manager go when they start questioning? Do i have to answer him? I thought a line managers job is to instruct not question? If line managers are allowed to question what is classed as reasonable? I once told this line manager that if he wanted to question me then he had to go through the union rep. is that a sufficient and reasonable reply by me?

I worked over today and have done so all week, he questioned what time i left the office when i went on delivery, he seen me leave the office i also signed out, he also asked me how long i had spent throwing in another walk which is not on his section, i told him i did'nt know. He is standing in for the regular manager who is on sick, have no problems with the regular manager. An unusual week this week, treble household and five candidate leaflets for the election, takes time to put together, , i will not be doing it for nothing.

Legitimate questions from him unfortunately, though depending on his tone could be construed as bullying,

He started quoting me prep rates and how long it should take me to deliver my households and election material today, never had a work time learning on this matter and never been coached aswell, told him again if he wanted to question me he should go through the union. As for his tone i'd say it was an attempt by him to get me to lose my temper and say something i might regret.

sounds so familiar. feel for you mate.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

No, the amount of overtime to claim is the amount of time you go over. We are contracted to absorb the election material for Xp an item.
We dont have to do unpaid overtime just because there are election leaflets in our bundles.

Erm actually have you read the ltb announcement at the top of the page covering election payments



4 There should be no extended delivery overtime for poll cards and ‘Election communication’ candidate mail (unit payments are made instead).

Erm, that is what I said - election mail is absorbed into our duty time in exchange for unit payments. The ltb doesnt say anything about doing unpaid O/T. If you dont have time to do normal mail + election mail, you either book it or manager gets someone else to do the excess.

Your not supposed to claim ot for the election element so if you duty length is 7hours and you have 6hours 30 of normal work plus 1 hour of election work you are not supposed to be claiming the extra half hour as ot

So are you saying you should do that half hour unpaid ? Ridiculous. In your example the one hour of election work has been absorbed into the duty time because that is why we are paid Xp per item. The half hour over is excess O/T. Nowhere does it say we are expected to do unpaid hours (ie work while off duty) because we have election stuff in a bundle. You interpret rules as if they are the masters and we are the serfs.

its not unpaid its paid per pence per item, as its those items that are solely making you go over your time, if you were not delivering them you would have completed on time

you are not supposed to claim for ot in that scenario hence the line about no excess ot being paid but being paid per pence per item instead. the key word is "instead" Again if your daily workload can be completed in your time and only after adding the election material you go over then that amount over should not be claimed as ot. that what the agreement specifically states. what agreement and where in it supports what you are incorrectly trying to claim?

[Brainache]

The ambiguous ltb say no O/T should be clamed for election stuff. I take that to mean no O/T should be worked as it will not be paid. You take it to mean if you go over, tough, you dont get paid for it. I will stick to my interpretation and not work for nothing while you can advise posties that going over and not booking it has been agreed. I bet you havent gone over and not booked it so why advise others to ?

As you say the key word is `instead`. You get paid Xp to absorb the work `instead` of working O/T. You are taking that to mean you should do the work on unpaid O/T for Xp `instead of booking it.