Disillusioned already

[chrisj]

How exactly do you measure 1 hour work in delivery?

From when does that 1 hour start and at what rate of work should it be measures. What about external factors might contribute to that 1 hour turning into 1 hour and 15 minutes or more?

I know that dvbuk55 does not do deliveries anymore so it is quite alright to have such a point of view but then he is a proper all-together Union man...

Like I pointed out before; a standard rate (even unofficial) cuts out the unfairness and make it less likely for managements to do deals and for some favourites to benefit from the usual nepotism...

What you will get with members slagging off some poorer part timers trying to make up their wages is a race to the bottom where we shall all be poorer for it.

A manager already told me that they are using some newer 27 hours posties for overtime and coming on day's off because they are cheaper. How can that be when the hourly rate are virtually the same (we are not talking age-related or less than 6 months in the job).

Once I found that the manager starts to argue with me on how long the delivery will take and/or found out that the hours paid is not what was agreed or generally perceived; I put a stop to ad-hoc overtime. My time is too valuable to go out and do extra for less money than I would have during normal hours (at the end of the day (on some days) some us still do not work the full hours that we are paid).

Time is money and I am not a 24 or 27 hours - why let my manager gets more bonuses out of my sweat?

So what we have now is some newer staff on low hours under-cutting the office (some do the work for less money than it takes - One even argues that he is still within his contractual hours whilst doing OT - manager's pet )

So it is not just foreigners under-cutting the working class - some of our own are happy for us to do the race to the bottom. Next, we shall have 'thank you, boss, for giving me a chance to do this overtime; I'll do it for next to nothing as long as it keeps coming... .

One of these new guys can be heard interjecting loudly when another postie was trying to negotiate with the manager on how long a particular loop/s will take; saying 'it should not take x amount of time to do that'... what a plonker!

Fact! Most full time staff and long-timers rarely do extra delivery overtime!!!

[Hitcher]

A manager already told me that they are using some newer 27 hours posties for overtime and coming on day's off because they are cheaper. How can that be when the hourly rate are virtually the same (we are not talking age-related or less than 6 months in the job).

Because PT's are only paid flat rate until they've worked 39 hours.

[dvbuk55]

How exactly do you measure 1 hour work in delivery?

From when does that 1 hour start and at what rate of work should it be measures. What about external factors might contribute to that 1 hour turning into 1 hour and 15 minutes or more?

I know that dvbuk55 does not do deliveries anymore so it is quite alright to have such a point of view but then he is a proper all-together Union man.

I wouldn't exactly say I'm an altogether union man chris:chuckle Perhaps I'm being misconstrued about the hours pay on delivery, what I mean is one hours work = 1 hours pay however employed during that hour, prep, travel to and from, waiting time - whatever. The problem with negotiating prior to that overtime is you have already set the time limit - so if it takes longer does someone then go back and say I want another half hour? if so then the opposite side of the coin must apply surely?

I must admit I once used to authorise overtime in another job and I would not authorise 1 minute over the worked time because I had to justify the output to hours worked. Having done all the jobs that I had to authorise time for I knew within certain constraints how long tasks would take and if someone tried to claim more then there had to be an explanation for it.

[fishtank]

Because PT's are only paid flat rate until they've worked 39 hours.

Since PT staff have to be paid the delivery supplement up to 39 hrs the rates are virtually the same so there is no real financial incentive for Royal Mail in giving all the overtime to PT staff.

There is of course a moral and logical argument in that generally speaking they need the money more and the more regular overtime we give to PT staff, the stronger the argument we have for having those hours consolidated into contractual hours and therefore maintaining and increasing full time jobs.

[fishtank]

I suspect that although this practice of "premium overtime" won't die out completely as it's market driven it will come under closer scrutiny if the business moves to an efficiency measurement system based on items per work hour.

[chrisj]

Because PT's are only paid flat rate until they've worked 39 hours.

Since PT staff have to be paid the delivery supplement up to 39 hrs the rates are virtually the same so there is no real financial incentive for Royal Mail in giving all the overtime to PT staff.

There is of course a moral and logical argument in that generally speaking they need the money more and the more regular overtime we give to PT staff, the stronger the argument we have for having those hours consolidated into contractual hours and therefore maintaining and increasing full time jobs.

Could not agree more with the above highlighted statement...

I suspect when the manager said the part-timers or newer staff are cheaper, they meant they can be easier to exploit... The hourly rate is not that much different even with Hitcher's logic.

I have seen part-timers asked to come in on their day off only to be sent home for nothing... That will never happen with an established member of staff. Or the part timer clearly being underpaid for working a full time week e.g the part timer is paid 1 hour extra for double prepping for a whole week; thereby earning 35 or 37 hours instead of 39 hours for a straightforward full time duty for a whole week.

Part timers being asked to come in on their days off without being told what element of work they are going to be paid for. So part timer might think he is working 6.5 hours whereas it is for 5 hours - so comes in early. Or coming in to cover a full timers (7.48) only to realise that you are going to be used as a 32 hour (6.5hrs) - you are in early so can you do this and that only to find out that real truth in your pay package.

We also have a manager that will pay people only 6 hours for coming in on a day off whereas we do not have 6-hours day anymore except Tuesday.

Where there are most cheap is being paid, sometimes, just for delivery during extra delivery OT instead of delivery time, plus travel, toilet break, extra break and so on.

[Tuffers1875]

Ours is 2.5 hrs for half a delivery inc large parcels so typically on a busy day those who've signed for it will be claiming extra the next morning.
Not surprisingly, not many volunteer for the extra work.

If you want extra work but are cheesed off with the cutbacks I'd suggest you offer to do quarter of the overtime duty for 1.5 hrs pay.
Work it with a friend for the same deal - might make it easier for the manager to swallow.
Hopefully you'll at least get back to your 3hr standard for half a delivery by pricing your labour this way

Your labour is already priced - 1 hours work = 1 hours pay.

So if you can get away with doing the work quicker than the allotted time, do it! You sir are advocating we get the minimum, when we can get better than that at this moment in time. If it comes to getting paid 1 hour for an hour so be it, but while you can get paid 1 hour for half an hours work then grab it while you can. How many millions did they make off our backs!? Stuff em!

[billy44]

Got asked today to cover half a walk and said unless I get 3 hours I am not prepared to do it,manager said he'd get back to me,surprise surprise get a phone call while out on delivery saying that 3 hours would be ok.

[dvbuk55]

Got asked today to cover half a walk and said unless I get 3 hours I am not prepared to do it,manager said he'd get back to me,surprise surprise get a phone call while out on delivery saying that 3 hours would be ok.

More fool him!

[2pints]

3 hours for half a walk?? i only get 2.And i can usually be finished before 2 hours.

[CharlesSpooner]

Why not just extend on your own delivery rather than chase half a walk here, there and everywhere?

1 - Come in on time
2 - Take your breaks
3 - Proper van checks
4 - Correct methods (york container etc) when loading van
5 - Inform your manager that you have too great a workload to complete on time but are willing to complete the duty on OT at the end of your contracted hours as you would any other OT.
6 - Use a trolley on delivery
7 - Come back to office at end of contracted hours
8 - Take any break remaining for your contracted hours (for those of you on 20/20 breaks)
9 - Travel back out to delivery, nice and refreshed
10 - Complete delivery, still using trolley
11 - Return to office
12 - Book OT worked

If you don't mind getting home around 5 or 6 in the evening then it's a very easy and stress free way of getting a bit of docket and relieving any pressure you may feel to rush around your delivery. And it also helps keep jobs in the office.

[terry2972]

I like the sound of that last post as I need to make my part time hrs up
Trouble is most of the partners I work with are still in the job and finish mode and would moan a lot if I took trolley etc

[k979aaa]

Why not just extend on your own delivery rather than chase half a walk here, there and everywhere?

1 - Come in on time
2 - Take your breaks
3 - Proper van checks
4 - Correct methods (york container etc) when loading van
5 - Inform your manager that you have too great a workload to complete on time but are willing to complete the duty on OT at the end of your contracted hours as you would any other OT.
6 - Use a trolley on delivery
7 - Come back to office at end of contracted hours
8 - Take any break remaining for your contracted hours (for those of you on 20/20 breaks)
9 - Travel back out to delivery, nice and refreshed
10 - Complete delivery, still using trolley
11 - Return to office
12 - Book OT worked

If you don't mind getting home around 5 or 6 in the evening then it's a very easy and stress free way of getting a bit of docket and relieving any pressure you may feel to rush around your delivery. And it also helps keep jobs in the office.

As long as your office manager is not a twat like ours!

[Joe237]

Why not just extend on your own delivery rather than chase half a walk here, there and everywhere?

1 - Come in on time
2 - Take your breaks
3 - Proper van checks
4 - Correct methods (york container etc) when loading van
5 - Inform your manager that you have too great a workload to complete on time but are willing to complete the duty on OT at the end of your contracted hours as you would any other OT.
6 - Use a trolley on delivery
7 - Come back to office at end of contracted hours
8 - Take any break remaining for your contracted hours (for those of you on 20/20 breaks)
9 - Travel back out to delivery, nice and refreshed
10 - Complete delivery, still using trolley
11 - Return to office
12 - Book OT worked

If you don't mind getting home around 5 or 6 in the evening then it's a very easy and stress free way of getting a bit of docket and relieving any pressure you may feel to rush around your delivery. And it also helps keep jobs in the office.

As long as your office manager is not a twat like ours!

Also got the issue that if you're not on a perm contract your DOM isn't going to be very inclined to keep you on after your term is done

[CharlesSpooner]

As long as your office manager is not a twat like ours!

I've always found that having a twat as a manager makes doing it like that more fun. You can see their hair turn grey/fall out before your very eyes as you calmly and innocently ask exactly what you've done wrong?

They don't seem to like it when you ask them to test any/all parts of the duty to see if they can point out what you're doing wrong and to offer you some helpful advice to increase your productivity.