job and finish

[hantsman]

hantman

I will give you an incomplete story but I am sure you can fill in the blanks...

FT Postman finished at 11.45am when his actual finish time should have been 14.48pm and he did his lapse...

So what is likely going on there?

I only work on the complete story.

[BernardBresslaw]

OK Pod as you are having difficulty understanding. If your work mates finish at 12 o'clock or 1 o'clock you personally still get paid the same do you not? Is that simple enough for you?

The walks aren't even this is true and they never will be as it is impossible to do. Some walks may get more mail, some take longer to walk with dead walking, etc. So what? You get paid to do your job. Do your job, go home.

What another man does in his working day is not your concern unless you are paying him. Are you paying these people? No so get a grip and forget about them!

We are getting paid to work our hours though. It's fair for the OP to point out that, if the round he is doing, has too much work on it, it would be reasonable to expect those finishing 3 hours early, to take some of it out, to fill his paid for hours.

In an ideal world obviously. Any manager worth his salt, would be doing this already, as it would be saving him/her a fortune in OT.

[pod25]

It's a figure of speech so no need to get out of your pc pram. Insert the word 'person' instead of 'man' if it will help you sleep better at night!

As for rounds being fair I have big news for you life ain't fair get over it!


You are missing the point. What the 'person' does or does not do next to you is not your concern. You are not paid to watch other people at work you are paid to do YOUR job not thiers and you do NOT pay thier wages. When you do, you get a say in what hours they work. Until you take over from Moya... mind your own business!

I've been very nice with you and my replies (until now) have reflected my attitude towards you, I can't say the same for you though.
How ever, my patience has now expired with you and I WILL tell you to go f**k yourself, in public if you like so we can all laugh at you.

I also suspect that you are a manager. You certainly can't be a union member with your stupid attitude.

[Judgee]

Bernard there could be many reasons why someone finishes earlier than someone else. They may have an easier walk. They may also just crack on with it, not take any coffee/cigarette breaks or just not stand around chatting all morning. Or they may just be alot quicker at the job.

So who should decide when someone finishing earlier should do someone elses job for them, especially if they are just a much harder worker?

Never mind. No doubt some time in the near future we will all be clocking in and out with anyone finishing early having to return to the office to sit around twiddling thier thumbs until finish time if there is no work to do. Then Pod and all the hard-done-bys will get thier wish and everyone will suffer the same.

For the record, I am one of the late finishers in my office, but for those that finish before me I say good luck to them. Their gain is not my loss and I don't waste my time stressing about it, life is too short and there are far more important things to concern myself with!

Pod, people are laughing at you mate! I'm not a manager and as for the CWU, it's your self centered attitude that's ruined the union. You slag off your work mates when you should be working with them against management. With you it's all "me me me I want I want and whaaaaa it's not fair" just grow up will you!

[pod25]

OK, back to my level head again.

Let me give you a scenario and this exact scenario happened in our office a few years back.

Group of people come in early and start early.
Same group don't take any breaks.
Same group finish early.

This then creates false figures.
Management then see they are wasting upto and over 60 hours a week.
That then triggered a YEAR long lapsing. They took a round out and lapsed it for a year.
To rub the salt in a already gaping wound, the ones who created the false figures all got the easy end of the stick and those who did the job correctly got s**t on.
This is a TRUE story.

So you can call me a crying baby all you like, but I have every reason to be bitter, because I am seeing the same thing happening again, by the same sodding group.

[chrisj]

pod25, you will not get much joy here... It is the same people time and time again... Like someone called nicknamed them - they are 'plastic' Union members.

It is all so simple - we have very poor management and a strong Union that is most likely going to defend the status quo and they are often behind the workshy and those that gets away with things.

To allow people to get away with working less hours than they get paid, some others will be harassed and pressured into making up the short fall. That is the a simple reason why they will never accept a fair workload for everyone.

All you can hope is the the 'Review' which now looks like a 'booby prize' or even a 'booby trap' will expose such practices and RM will go after the feckless.

Resourcing to Workload Efficiently and Fairly Strand

We will jointly explore new resourcing models including: seasonal variations and revised duty structures and attendance patterns, to see if we can better align resource to workload and at the same time identifying benefits for both the business and employees. This will include new method improvements, indoor and outdoor equipment, and processes to sort and prepare mail for delivery. We will also use PDA technology to better understand our delivery performance. Some aspects of this strand will require the use of industrial engineers.

Just because a revision has gone through (and lazy planner have left easy walks) does not mean the end of efficiency savings and a lot of offices and walks will be revisited following the review. The use of the PDA to 'monitor' activities for customer and posties will be so illuminating - am especially looking forward to that.

[Judgee]

So work to your time and cut off. Let the early starters do all the lapsing. If they are finishing before you every day they will be the only ones with time to do it. The management can moan at you as much as they like about you cutting off but they can't do feck all about it! The early starters will soon start coming in on time when they realise they are the only ones getting lapsing.

Your only concern should be the hours that you work. You have to accept the fact that for the hours that you are paid you will most likely be expected to work. Job and knock is well on it's way out. Maybe a lucky few are still making a bit of time but that is not likely to last and runners/early starters sooner or later shoot themselves in the foot.

One guy in our office used to get in two hours early every day and every few months they'd add another road to his walk. He finally realised that getting in early was not a very smart idea but by that time his walk had doubled. He ended up working flat out right up until his time every day, and this was back when we all got to finish a little earlier.

Work to your time, go home relax. Recently I have gone through alot of losses in my life and it makes you reassess what's important. Family, friends and loved ones, anything else just isn't a big deal!

[Judgee]

Yes Chris it is the same people time and time again.... moaning about how hard done by they are. Get a life and stop banging that drum!

[BernardBresslaw]

So work to your time and cut off. Let the early starters do all the lapsing. If they are finishing before you every day they will be the only ones with time to do it. The management can moan at you as much as they like about you cutting off but they can't do feck all about it! The early starters will soon start coming in on time when they realise they are the only ones getting lapsing.

Your only concern should be the hours that you work. You have to accept the fact that for the hours that you are paid you will most likely be expected to work. Job and knock is well on it's way out. Maybe a lucky few are still making a bit of time but that is not likely to last and runners/early starters sooner or later shoot themselves in the foot.

One guy in our office used to get in two hours early every day and every few months they'd add another road to his walk. He finally realised that getting in early was not a very smart idea but by that time his walk had doubled. He ended up working flat out right up until his time every day, and this was back when we all got to finish a little earlier.

Work to your time, go home relax. Recently I have gone through alot of losses in my life and it makes you reassess what's important. Family, friends and loved ones, anything else just isn't a big deal!

Yeah I agree with all this. I still think he has a reason to complain if he is being pressurised to stay out beyond his time, and doesn't want to, if people are going home early.

Let's face it, the reason most people finish hours early is because they start early, don't take a break, and cut corners on delivery. If managers took cut offs from people in the morning, and handed them to people coming back early! to go back out and deliver, then maybe these bad practises would stop.

[chrisj]

Bernard,

Some people also finish really early because they have easier rounds... eEven though the revision (in some places) has shaken things a bit such part time/full time combinations, double prepping and revised walks, part time walks created so some of the easier walks have gone to part timers and even newish part timers...

You still have instances where the Planners could not be bothered to actually try and make some easier walks harder and harder ones easier so that you have more balanced walks.(not equal).

One instance or example is where you have a 2 walks paired - one is bigger and has more mail (everyone knows) but the other is a bit lighter: so on paper, if the pair walk together then the delivery is the same but the prep is not. Now take it further, one of the walks is lapsed (the hard one) and the easier one becomes a singleton for most of the year... (that is poor planning and poor management especially since the one on the easy walk has the same lapse next to his own walk as someone who has to travel longer).

You also have 2 easier walks that are paired - 'nothing changed' because it will have meant tearing up a number of walks around there to achieve fairness. We have such a walk FT/PT and they finish 1++ hours before finish time - everyday - and managers know. You also have the issue vice versa...

[BernardBresslaw]

That's fine. If they come back early, then find them some other work to do eg sorting, endorsing kill-offs etc. I don't believe in any office, that there can be a 3 hour discrepancy between rounds though.

[chrisj]

[Judgee]

Ah never realised we had a foe feature. Result, no more piffle to read from Chris... that's the first useful thing he's ever said!

Probably be the only one I put on it. I may not agree with alot of what you have to say Pod but at least your not a lunatic fanatic like him!

[Spy]

1 - Utilise ALL work hours.
2 - Equable duties

ie; If your finishing time is 14.45 you finish at that time. NOT 13.00 because you came in early or didn't take your meal relief (legal requirement).

Job and finish no longer applies as part of the 2010 agreement.

The sooner this is enforced the better for all posties.

Unfortunately RM management will do all they can NOT to enforce this because then " the runners " become the walkers and lapsing, overtime inside your duty hours etc become a thing of the past. I am going through the same thing at my office. I have just been told to do approx. 1.5 hrs on delivery. I work indoors and I cannot complete all aspects of my work. This is now done by management or 1 of the outdoor staff, who they will pay o/t. You also have posties finishing at 11.30 a.m. Sometimes earlier. My day ends between 14.03 and 14.33 depending on the day.

Post revision : Some duties have had circa 3 hrs removed from their duty and replaced with 1hrs work and I end up with more work, yet I always work my time.

DIVIDE AND CONQUER SPRINGS TO MIND.

[BernardBresslaw]

That was the point I was making earlier - if people are getting back that early, why are managers paying people OT to do your cut-offs? They should be sending out the early finishers with your excess as they wouldn't need to pay them a dime!