No confidence in CWU negotiating team

[Silly Sarah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amZsdpLXcIo

Brilliant

If Moya is their is she offering her services to Billy and the gang once a month

yuck!

[drb]

k979aaa. I believe,and don't kill me for saying this! We cannot,(I use the word "we" meaning line managers,DOMs and DSM's,Reps and members,cannot carry on working like this.

DSM's,(either get rid of them or manage the offices themselves).
DOM's = What do you actually do? You certainly do not manage your units. Remember! Not one size fits all
Line managers = The sooner you have a NVQ attached and a qualifying exam then sit on the local office recruitment interview,(yes! that will include the local rep!), the better.
CWU Unit reps = I sympathies with the hard working unit reps. What a job you have! Thank you too by the way! For those that abuse their position...piss off!
Members = Sign off your revision and help your rep get the best out of the BT Transformation agreement. Despite it's criticisms..there is some,(a lot) of benefits there. and give up the cars,take your bloody meal breaks and STOP coming in early. If you have a rep...help them?

[bustedflush]

I was given a union form by our rep 9 months ago, and still haven't filled it in after working RM for a year on 6-month contracts. I'm glad I haven't. This BS is just pandering to RM's delaying tactics to keep the matter going until after Christmas. There goes your backdated pay rise before the festive season. The 'strike breakers bonus' of 300 has been dropped as it could be illegal and the CWU lawyers were going to challenge it. Instead it has been added to the 3-year 8.6% deal to make it nearer 10%. This means you get it 'forever' as opposed to once, if you follow. The rest is about long-term stuff, but in a declining letter market and competitive parcel market, how can they all see 18 months ahead let alone 3 or more years?
WE LOVE PARCELS! pffftttt

[adamanti]

This is all a waste of time anyway. No matter what the union negotiate or don't if the mindless spineless posties continue to come in early, not take break's and then still not work to time. the few of us that do will continually face a daily battle to justify working your contracted hours. Union getting a lot of stick on here and maybe some of it justified, but at the moment it's my co workers that are really pissing me off!

[thehappyones]

totally agree with Adam
Although I am an indoor worker we have these people ,and probably most,if not all,offices and functions have them .

[fishtank]

This is all a waste of time anyway. No matter what the union negotiate or don't if the mindless spineless posties continue to come in early, not take break's and then still not work to time. the few of us that do will continually face a daily battle to justify working your contracted hours. Union getting a lot of stick on here and maybe some of it justified, but at the moment it's my co workers that are really pissing me off!

This is a partially flawed argument though..
If you break down your comment and move it around a bit...

If doing the job properly means facing a daily battle then obviously most members will try to avoid that if they can,it's human nature so what you have is a defined workplace environment that encourages bad practice.

Do you blame members for that?,partially but you also have to look at management behavior,workplace agreements and the union's apparent inability both locally and nationally to protect members who are doing the job properly.

BT2010 failed to do that,in fact in my opinion it made the situation much worse by endorsing complex resourcing tools with vague statements that were easily manipulated to position the blame for resourcing failure at the feet of members,particularly those doing the job properly.

The level of bullying has ramped up considerably since this agreement was introduced and that has a double affect,not only are the lives of strong members being made miserable through daily battles over workload but far fewer of the members watching from the sidelines are likely to want anything to do with that level of daily harassment.

When a union asks members to do the job properly it must also promise to protect those members and in many offices that isn't happening,In fact I know of area reps who openly dismiss both the use of the delivery equipment and working all paid hours because both are unpopular with members and being an area rep is obviously sometimes more about popularity with your mates than doing what's right for the entire membership.

The union at national level could and should have forced the issues of delivery equipment and working all paid hours much harder and faster than it has with senior management but again it appears to be more about popularity than sense.

The union must share some of the culpability when members fail to do the job properly because it is the union that should help to shape the working environment that should promote and protect certain working practices.

[drb]

Fishtank,

I agree to a point. Yes,line managers need educating on delivery methods. No doubt about that. Secondly, yes, some members do rush out of fear and certainly in some smaller delivery offices. Now did BT 2010 deal with this? No. The tools and complex resource tools are a bit much for reps,( and traditionaly our reps are much more qualified then any senior manager let alone unit level management). Therefore unit level managers just get told what to do rather then manage their own unit.

Could HQ have been more aware of this at the time? Maybe. I believe the resolution issues need to be changed for sure. The IR framework,(1992) is possibly not fit for purpose. There has to be wholesale change on all CWU and RM issues. However the CWU's conference policies are more transparent,(conference rules etc), where as RM's( I do think the word corrupt is a bit strong..but if the cap fits!). For example.."have your say" surveys.

As previously mentioned,there is no agreement that can keep pace with our workload. Last years traffic is a totally different animal to this years. The best thing to do is look after people. Did CWU HQ fail on this? I do not think so,remember CWU HQ conducted a long and receptive survey on B&H this year. This is now the sticking point on the discussions. The business do not recognise the delivery office issues. Local management are ruled by fear and will not speak out. We will speak out.

More importantly,we are dealing with an employer that for the last 10 years have attempted to rid it's functions of the CWU. That is fact. Secondly we are now dealing with a private company so strategies and long term thinking have to change as well as learning from past national agreements that have been interpreted differently by senior management,(and perhaps the dreaded "union busters or those freemasons!)

[britwrit]

...you also have to look at management behavior,workplace agreements and the union's apparent inability both locally and nationally to protect members who are doing the job properly.

Yeah. You can't separate a lot of the dysfunctional behavior here from having a lone, isolated rep in an office (or none at all.)

Whatever agreement eventually emerges, I guarantee you that it's not going to be some sort of magical shield or instantly stop the intense pressure members face. At best, it'll be a valuable tool.

[adamanti]

Aa always Fishtank, you talk a lot of sense and yes my comments are based on what i see at the moment. First day of our revision union meeting held, area rep tell's us all use trollies, work to time or OT, do not do this, do not do that. Later that morning wtl with manager, tell's us pretty much the same, use trollies etc. Now 6/7 weeks into P&L revision you can count the amount of pairs using correct equipment and taking their break's on one hand and we are a large office. Not even about people finishing early, they just say they can only complete with bag on shoulder. Now will not slag our rep off, but yes you are right our union should be making a big point of delivery methods and doing the job as RM have asked us to do it. Will annoy rep on that point tomorrow!

Just a shame that the workforce is not more aware that we already had RM in the palms of our hands with the revisions and mandatory delivery methods. If we had all just done as we were told.......

[drb]

Adamanti,

Just to throw another slant in the argument. There are some offices in the UK in delivery method actually using the tools and working their time,not coming in early and taking their breaks. The result? Bullying and blaming our members,(from top down management), that they are "going slow".

These are the complex issues around our delivery offices,damned if they do and damned if they don't. It is not the union's fault and certainly not the unit reps. It is lack of education from the employer. The revisions are not giving them the savings,(slash and burn policies) nor quality of service. The one thing not happening are the IR disagreements,and dare I say it..local legal ballot requests. The trouble with IR disagreements they are ignored and the process is too long and open to interpretation.

[adamanti]

Adamanti,

Just to throw another slant in the argument. There are some offices in the UK in delivery method actually using the tools and working their time,not coming in early and taking their breaks. The result? Bullying and blaming our members,(from top down management), that they are "going slow".

These are the complex issues around our delivery offices,damned if they do and damned if they don't. It is not the union's fault and certainly not the unit reps. It is lack of education from the employer. The revisions are not giving them the savings,(slash and burn policies) nor quality of service. The one thing not happening are the IR disagreements,and dare I say it..local legal ballot requests. The trouble with IR disagreements they are ignored and the process is too long and open to interpretation.

Some very good points drb, I am hoping negotiations are tackling some of these issues,guess we will have to wait and see....

[Edward Hunter]

The problem in RM for years is that managers have been promoted well beyond their abilities. The lack of education throughout the entire business,holds the company back. To be able to manage a workplace, you need to be able to do the tasks that you are managing. A simple mantra i believe from the military - dont ask your men to do anything you cant do yourself. When the people allegedly in charge are in general, inept, you are never going to have a good working enviroment. As sometimes, to cover your own inabilities you will end up accusing those under your charge of things that are totally untrue. The vast majority of posties want to give the public a great service, one the business is now demanding. But workload has to be manageable. The years of charging around, cutting all the corners under the sun, gave management a totally unrealistic picture of life on deliveries. As has been said above, the solution is not in a quick fix, but a total change of ideology.

[drb]

The problem in RM for years is that managers have been promoted well beyond their abilities. The lack of education throughout the entire business,holds the company back. To be able to manage a workplace, you need to be able to do the tasks that you are managing. A simple mantra i believe from the military - dont ask your men to do anything you cant do yourself. When the people allegedly in charge are in general, inept, you are never going to have a good working enviroment. As sometimes, to cover your own inabilities you will end up accusing those under your charge of things that are totally untrue. The vast majority of posties want to give the public a great service, one the business is now demanding. But workload has to be manageable. The years of charging around, cutting all the corners under the sun, gave management a totally unrealistic picture of life on deliveries. As has been said above, the solution is not in a quick fix, but a total change of ideology.

[egor110]

We used to have a workforce that didn't come in early and worked there hours, we'd do a delivery then return to office take our full meal break then down sorting residue mail for the next day or some would go out and cover deliveries which hadn't been covered.

Perhaps to go forwards we need to look backwards?

[knackeredjointsRUS]

We used to have a workforce that didn't come in early and worked there hours, we'd do a delivery then return to office take our full meal break then down sorting residue mail for the next day or some would go out and cover deliveries which hadn't been covered.

Perhaps to go forwards we need to look backwards?