Ask not what the union can do for you..

[pcb]

Negotiations is a double edged sword and strategic thinking comes into play. You look to get the best you can without breaking. If you just steam in without the numbers you normally get a lacing.

[dvbuk55]

Negotiations is a double edged sword and strategic thinking comes into play. You look to get the best you can without breaking. If you just steam in without the numbers you normally get a lacing.

Strategic thinking is unfortunately not the Unions strongpoint. The last time we backed the union the union backed down and we ended up with BT2010 - many on this forum warned of disaster but the union wouldn't listen: in fact it was more a headlong rush by the union to enter into a form of marriage or at least a civil partnership with RM .................now my question would be "Are the issues being put forward as deserving of members support, and I'm not sure the case is made yet, the REAL issues on the table"?

We do NOT want the secrecy that surrounded the last negotiations, each step must be clearly spelled out to the membership as and when it happens. We do NOT want an agreement that wasn't fully explained nor fully negotiated nor sent to each and every member.

What we DO want is the negotiations to be about the members because on the last occasion I do not believe that was the case.

It's indicative of the failure of the negotiating when 3 years down the line only 50% of delivery offices have managed to modernise under the terms of BT2010 and of the ones who have modernised a large proportion aren't carrying out the agreed procedures nor using the correct equipment.

[hans solo]

our wonderful leaders are at it again no info on talks re pay .
re colleague share replacement , failing revisions ,bullying ,privatisation nothing.
but rm shove it in our faces every wtl session with the brainwashing rmtv
cwu f***ing joke , full of self interest get dw, bg or billy out on delivery with a trolly or htc and see how they cope with their f***ing agreements

[arthur was right]

Whatever Royal mail top management want [AKA as the tory lead government] they will get. The unions are totally useless and royal mail is full to the top of the "I,m alright Jack brigade". Theres not one jot of unity in any sorting offices in Royal Mail ..[.Well maybe a few but far too few to be worthwhile. We are a laughing stock!! FACT!!

[dvbuk55]

Whatever Royal mail top management want [AKA as the tory lead government] they will get. The unions are totally useless and royal mail is full to the top of the "I,m alright Jack brigade". Theres not one jot of unity in any sorting offices in Royal Mail ..[.Well maybe a few but far too few to be worthwhile. We are a laughing stock!! FACT!!

Well whatever power any union has will soon be eroded even more if the new proposed legislation comes to pass. In order to call a strike the union would need to have an excess of 50% of it's members in favour - not a majority of yeas over nays on returned ballot papers..................and that must be a considerable worry for any union that has ignored it's grass roots for a very long time do we know any union like that?

[borders]

the last CWU/RM agreement is over. draw a line under it. what we face in the future has no bearing on what has happened in the past. IMO we have no choice but to put up a show. this show does not have to be just led from the top, us the workers have to also lead and show the way. this is a different fight, a real fight for our terms and conditions .

[dvbuk55]

the last CWU/RM agreement is over. draw a line under it. what we face in the future has no bearing on what has happened in the past. IMO we have no choice but to put up a show. this show does not have to be just led from the top, us the workers have to also lead and show the way. this is a different fight, a real fight for our terms and conditions .

It would be grand to draw a line under it, unfortunately we are left with the legacy of it and that is ongoing especially for those who have yet to face modernisation, though probably not as bad as those who've already undergone a revision using the tools of the day only to find the playing field has now been shifted. So what exactly are we going to change and how are we to go about it - and that IS a serious question.

[borders]

agreed but RM have moved on from the last agreement. their next move after privatisation will be even more catastrophic for us all. I keep reading posties will not support the union because of the last agreement. surely that agreement is irrelevant now, there are many more terms and conditions still in place that can be attacked.

[dvbuk55]

agreed but RM have moved on from the last agreement. their next move after privatisation will be even more catastrophic for us all. I keep reading posties will not support the union because of the last agreement. surely that agreement is irrelevant now, there are many more terms and conditions still in place that can be attacked.

I think that we are all probably aware of what's at stake, that really isn't the problem. What is the problem is the union having a strategy that encompasses ALL the members and all the problems that they face. It's all very well setting out the problems and asking for support but what I've seen so far isn't likely to galvanise the members into rushing to man the barricades I'm afraid. TBH I'm pretty ambivalent myself about the whole thing particularly I feel from the delivery point of view.

[borders]

fair enough, stating the bleedin obvious I know. the union have stated some of the issues and I think they should include pensions in that and are asking are you prepared to take strike action over them? for me regardless of what has gone on before-- YES

[dvbuk55]

fair enough, stating the bleedin obvious I know. the union have stated some of the issues and I think they should include pensions in that and are asking are you prepared to take strike action over them? for me regardless of what has gone on before-- YES

There's the rub though borders - how many part timers are going to be prepared to lose what little income they are getting particularly now that the overtime is pretty thin on the ground, how many aren't union members or are no longer union members since BT2010 or don't have a permanent contract. IMHO there has been a total lack of recruitment until recently and that simply isn't enough to sustain industrial action in some areas.

If the union are prepared to call a strike and if this time they are prepared to maintain it I'm ready willing and able but I'd want that cast in stone - there would be no point in going out for two days and then have them say "we've made progress and there's an interim agreement but we can't tell you about it" and end up worse off than we are now as happened last time. I want there to be clear goals and I mean a line drawn, clearly spelled out to the members on each and every issue that is of concern and no capitulation until the membership are satisfied that those goals have been met. This time I'd expect the glitterati to be visiting the areas to encourage the action NOT to pimp a bogus agreement. I may be asking too much but it is what it is.

[Cut Off King]

agreed but RM have moved on from the last agreement. their next move after privatisation will be even more catastrophic for us all. I keep reading posties will not support the union because of the last agreement. surely that agreement is irrelevant now, there are many more terms and conditions still in place that can be attacked.

How on earth can you describe the agreement as irrelevant ?

The union actively promoted a deal that increased delivery workloads & stress, they encouraged RM with "joint statements" they helped RM ( through revision activity ) to heap unrealistic targets upon members.

The terms of the agreement are still here. It didn't dissapear at the end of 3 years

The suffering is ongoing.

[daveyeff]

hear hear!!

[daveyeff]

i think they,ve lost the membership.

[fishtank]

How on earth can you describe the agreement as irrelevant ?

It's not the agreement that's irrelevant,it's the anger.
The only thing left to do with BT2010 is hopefully learn lessons from it.
Even if some of it was necessary it was vague in all the wrong places and at the same time over-complicated in other just as wrong places.
Delivery members won't forget who negotiated it and more importantly who over-sold it to them but....it's time to put the anger aside and concentrate on the future challenges that face us.