Appeal question

[UnhappyGremlin]

What do you mean by disciplinary meeting? Was it fact finding, or formal charge interview?

[st-postie]

it was a formal charge interview with dsm

[UnhappyGremlin]

Conduct Code

7. ACCESS TO DOCUMENTS

Information and documents that a manager may rely on in reaching his or her decision should be made available in advance of interviews, normally at least two working days. Only in certain cases will access to some papers be denied, e.g. if Solicitors recommend. Legal advice to Royal Mail will not be disclosed.

In cases where the anonymity of witnesses has to be preserved, information/documents released will be presented in such a way to achieve that objective in accordance with Employment Appeal Tribunal.

If you were presented with documents during the course of the interview, I would say RM and the DSM in question are in breach of this. Did you have a union Rep? If so, he/she should have pointed this out.

Did you get the letter advising to attend for formal charge via SD? Problem is now, they will probably deny you first saw the docs in this interview. Can you prove this is the case?

[UnhappyGremlin]

I don't want to give you false hope though. Even if you can prove a procedural error, it doesn't mean you'll get your job back. Even if you go to tribunal and win, RM are under no requirement to reinstate you, even if the tribunal recommends it. Really, you really should have been in contact with area Rep, preferably with them actually taking on the case.

Hope I've helped, and wish you good luck. (Been through something similar myself, though my case didn't get as far as dismissal, got 2 year suspended).

[st-postie]

Thanks for your help unhappygremlin! I am under no illusions that il get my job back due to a procedure error.

I can confirm that I had a union rep present at interview who pointed out that the documents presented during the meeting weren't received in line with Royal Mails "Access to documents." (48hours before)

I can also prove that they were presented during interview, and not infact before hand, as it is included in the notes of interview forwarded to me.

[UnhappyGremlin]

Technically, those docs are inadmissible as evidence. Your Rep did good. It's on record. Keep us posted will you. All the best.

[flaminmoses]

I don't want to give you false hope though. Even if you can prove a procedural error, it doesn't mean you'll get your job back. Even if you go to tribunal and win, RM are under no requirement to reinstate you, even if the tribunal recommends it. Really, you really should have been in contact with area Rep, preferably with them actually taking on the case.

Hope I've helped, and wish you good luck. (Been through something similar myself, though my case didn't get as far as dismissal, got 2 year suspended).

they took me back.
they tried to not take me back but the judge ordered them to.

[UnhappyGremlin]

I don't want to give you false hope though. Even if you can prove a procedural error, it doesn't mean you'll get your job back. Even if you go to tribunal and win, RM are under no requirement to reinstate you, even if the tribunal recommends it. Really, you really should have been in contact with area Rep, preferably with them actually taking on the case.

Hope I've helped, and wish you good luck. (Been through something similar myself, though my case didn't get as far as dismissal, got 2 year suspended).

they took me back.
they tried to not take me back but the judge ordered them to.

I'm only going on what I've been told. One thing I am curious about, can (or did) you sue for compensation, or is this sorted at Tribunal? Something like causing undue stress and mental anguish, defamation of character.

[General Mannerheim]

I don't want to give you false hope though. Even if you can prove a procedural error, it doesn't mean you'll get your job back. Even if you go to tribunal and win, RM are under no requirement to reinstate you, even if the tribunal recommends it. Really, you really should have been in contact with area Rep, preferably with them actually taking on the case.

Hope I've helped, and wish you good luck. (Been through something similar myself, though my case didn't get as far as dismissal, got 2 year suspended).

they took me back.
they tried to not take me back but the judge ordered them to.

I'm only going on what I've been told. One thing I am curious about, can (or did) you sue for compensation, or is this sorted at Tribunal? Something like causing undue stress and mental anguish, defamation of character.

Up to recently although a judge could order reinstatement it was rarely carried out(so unhappy you were correct) as there was no legislation for them to do so, and so many employers cited that it was `unsafe` or the mutual bond of trust had been breached or they just couldn't be arsed ,now there is a provision that judges can order a recommendation to reinstate,(indeed it is almost expected now when ET1 claim forms for unfair dismissal for the claimant to put reinstatement desired) ...it still doesn't mean that the employer must always do so, and indeed many small ones do get away with it BUT a large employer like Royal Fail is asking for trouble if it denies this especially the number of cases that Royal Fail defends and after all Judges have long memories. and won't think to kindly when they have recommended reinstatement and some knobjockey from HR says NON.
Also you can't claim undue stress or mental anguish for an unfair dismissal in an employment tribunal you can claim for loss of earnings or future loss of earnings but not compensation for mental anguish,stress etc,you can do it for discrimination cases as `injury to feelings`
The only other option is to go to a proper county court or High Court for mental anguish or stress but it is really hard to prove and only a few cases have managed to win,usually when an obviously vulnerable employee returning to work after a nervous breakdown brought on by stress at work(see Walker V NorthumberlandCC.)

[flaminmoses]

I don't want to give you false hope though. Even if you can prove a procedural error, it doesn't mean you'll get your job back. Even if you go to tribunal and win, RM are under no requirement to reinstate you, even if the tribunal recommends it. Really, you really should have been in contact with area Rep, preferably with them actually taking on the case.

Hope I've helped, and wish you good luck. (Been through something similar myself, though my case didn't get as far as dismissal, got 2 year suspended).

they took me back.
they tried to not take me back but the judge ordered them to.

I'm only going on what I've been told. One thing I am curious about, can (or did) you sue for compensation, or is this sorted at Tribunal? Something like causing undue stress and mental anguish, defamation of character.

no

as i took my job back i got all my back pay back and all compensation is waived

[flaminmoses]

if i didnt go back i would be entitled to my loss of earnings plus a few months future earning plus a few small add ons