our revision in june

[BernardBresslaw]

Just say you don't have a licence. Or keep crashing the van. They will soon stop you driving then. A combination of the two would work as well.

[fishtank]

Not true

You cannot be "forced" to drive

No but you can end up working in a D.O. 20 miles away because your office has no vacancies for a non-driver.
Not so now .

[BernardBresslaw]

Not true

You cannot be "forced" to drive

No but you can end up working in a D.O. 20 miles away because your office has no vacancies for a non-driver.
Not so now .

Depends how far you wish to take it. As long as all the travelling is done in work's time, working 20 miles away could still be to your benefit.

[postiemids]

Not true

You cannot be "forced" to drive

No but you can end up working in a D.O. 20 miles away because your office has no vacancies for a non-driver.
Not so now .

Depends how far you wish to take it. As long as all the travelling is done in work's time, working 20 miles away could still be to your benefit.

think ill try that

[mandelsons_toenail]

Just say you don't have a licence. Or keep crashing the van. They will soon stop you driving then. A combination of the two would work as well.

[fishtank]

Just say you don't have a licence. Or keep crashing the van. They will soon stop you driving then.

Saying you don't have a license is hardly going to work if you've been producing it every 6 months as you should have been.
And why would you "keep crashing the van" when the procedure is exactly the same whether you request removal from driving or you are removed from driving through NCI/capability issues?....other than of course deliberate disregard of health and safety and/or wilful damage to Royal Mail property can both lead to dismissal.
Seems a bit crazy when all you have to do is walk into the manager's office and ask to be taken off driving.

[clashcityrocker]

As long as all the travelling is done in work's time, working 20 miles away could still be to your benefit.

Of course the travelling wouldn't be in your duty time.
If they transfer you to another unit, that is where you start work ......at the start time.
Is your travelling time to work in your current work's time?

[BernardBresslaw]

Just say you don't have a licence. Or keep crashing the van. They will soon stop you driving then.

Saying you don't have a license is hardly going to work if you've been producing it every 6 months as you should have been.
And why would you "keep crashing the van" when the procedure is exactly the same whether you request removal from driving or you are removed from driving through NCI/capability issues?....other than of course deliberate disregard of health and safety and/or wilful damage to Royal Mail property can both lead to dismissal.
Seems a bit crazy when all you have to do is walk into the manager's office and ask to be taken off driving.

Possibly not being entirely serious there.

As long as all the travelling is done in work's time, working 20 miles away could still be to your benefit.

Of course the travelling wouldn't be in your duty time.
If they transfer you to another unit, that is where you start work ......at the start time.
Is your travelling time to work in your current work's time?

Eh? They can't force you to transfer to another office. They can make you work in another office but your home office would still remain the same. It is up to you to get to this office in your own time, if they then want you to work in a neighbouring office it is in their time and they need to provide transport too.

[mandelsons_toenail]

That is correct. You cannot be bullied and intimidated to drive and sending opg s to other unit is often a move that backfires when opg turns up at office for a lift out to the other office

And then needs to be back at 1st office at the end of duty time not a minute more



Unless your contract states otherwise your office is your office so to speak

As for crashing vans as a way of not driving? If a Dom feels he has to bully his staff to drive can you blame them?

I myself haven't handed in a driving licence for 4 years despite them asking

f**k them

[fishtank]

Eh? They can't force you to transfer to another office. They can make you work in another office but your home office would still remain the same. It is up to you to get to this office in your own time, if they then want you to work in a neighbouring office it is in their time and they need to provide transport too.

I think you are confusing a temporary loan to another office under P&M2007 with a permanent transfer under MTSF.
If you voluntarily invalidate yourself from driving or are removed from driving permanently under NCI and there are no non-driving positions available in your own office you are effectively a surplus employee.

In that case the business has an obligation to attempt to find you a position in a neighbouring office under what they consider "reasonable travelling distance".
If the distance to this new office is greater than the distance to your old office you would qualify for Excess Travel Expenses under MTSF.
This new office becomes your parent office.
You do not get "travelling time".

[BernardBresslaw]

Eh? They can't force you to transfer to another office. They can make you work in another office but your home office would still remain the same. It is up to you to get to this office in your own time, if they then want you to work in a neighbouring office it is in their time and they need to provide transport too.

I think you are confusing a temporary loan to another office under P&M2007 with a permanent transfer under MTSF.
If you voluntarily invalidate yourself from driving or are removed from driving permanently under NCI and there are no non-driving positions available in your own office you are effectively a surplus employee.

In that case the business has an obligation to attempt to find you a position in a neighbouring office under what they consider "reasonable travelling distance".
If the distance to this new office is greater than the distance to your old office you would qualify for Excess Travel Expenses under MTSF.
This new office becomes your parent office.
You do not get "travelling time".

So what happens if half the office are non-drivers? Surely in these days of P&L I don't see how there could *not* be a job unless they are all rural duties?

I don't think you can discriminate against non drivers or force them to get a licence.

[clashcityrocker]

So what happens if half the office are non-drivers? Surely in these days of P&L I don't see how there could *not* be a job unless they are all rural duties?

I don't think you can discriminate against non drivers or force them to get a licence.

If half the office was non-drivers, you would have to have a different solution but as that is an unlikely scenario it isn't worth discussing, especially as all new contracts are "postman with driving" and have been for some time.
Nobody is being discriminated against.
"Discrimination" is a word often thrown about by people who don't actually understand what it means.
What we are discussing is the consequences of people voluntarily removing themselves from driving and there no longer being a job for them in that unit.

[BernardBresslaw]

So what happens if half the office are non-drivers? Surely in these days of P&L I don't see how there could *not* be a job unless they are all rural duties?

I don't think you can discriminate against non drivers or force them to get a licence.

If half the office was non-drivers, you would have to have a different solution but as that is an unlikely scenario it isn't worth discussing, especially as all new contracts are "postman with driving" and have been for some time.
Nobody is being discriminated against.
"Discrimination" is a word often thrown about by people who don't actually understand what it means.
What we are discussing is the consequences of people voluntarily removing themselves from driving and there no longer being a job for them in that unit.

Thanks for the condescension. I know what discrimination means and in my scenario it fits. We have many posties in our office who don't drive and their contract makes no mention of it being a necessity, yet it doesn't affect their position in the seniority list.

[dvbuk55]

So what happens if half the office are non-drivers? Surely in these days of P&L I don't see how there could *not* be a job unless they are all rural duties?

I don't think you can discriminate against non drivers or force them to get a licence.

If half the office was non-drivers, you would have to have a different solution but as that is an unlikely scenario it isn't worth discussing, especially as all new contracts are "postman with driving" and have been for some time.
Nobody is being discriminated against.
"Discrimination" is a word often thrown about by people who don't actually understand what it means.
What we are discussing is the consequences of people voluntarily removing themselves from driving and there no longer being a job for them in that unit.

Thanks for the condescension. I know what discrimination means and in my scenario it fits. We have many posties in our office who don't drive and their contract makes no mention of it being a necessity, yet it doesn't affect their position in the seniority list.

Is that don't drive or can't drive - there is a difference under the agreement and I'm fairly sure that the union would take a dim view on outright refusal to implement a revision on P&L because someone didn't want to.