LTB 995/11 CWU ADDRESS RMG TOP 900 MANAGERS FORUM

[bogstandard]

I agree, I don't think it would have been in our best interests NOT to attend. I don't get invited to negotiation with Dave and whoever so i couldn't possibly comment on how blunt he is or could be.
If you want to grow crops you gotta plant seeds to coin a made up phrase.

[jessicarabbit]

Dingo either the revisions are failing or they are working which is it?

[Martin Walsh]

Dingo either the revisions are failing or they are working which is it?

Jessica you obviously have not been reading my posts , I have consistantly said a number of revisons have failed , some were minor and got put right using the PIR , others were disasters Dundee , Maidenhead and some of the Kent revisons. However some have worked. So in my view the delivery part of the agreement needs to change there is too much science and management are pushing for 100 BSI which has not been agreed. On top of this they are trying to absorb on top of this. Plus we know a lot of managers and members have started to break the agreement by going back to bags on backs and cars on delivery.

So I have been consistant and not only that I have made my views face to face with the PEC and our negotiators rather than just post anonymously on here.

[dvbuk55]

Well if Dave is not mincing his words NOW what has he been doing for the last 12 months and does it take a gathering of the RM glitterati for any point of what has been an unmitigating disaster to be made. The CWU have stated that they want this agreement to work - well it doesn't. Lump sum payments delayed, poor working relations, non inclusion in planning. Does it really take a meeting like this to achieve anything? If it does then we are in deep sh*t for these are the same managers who are driving these revisions and implementing unrealistic targets.

[daveyeff]

dingo, if dave doesnt mince his words when putting members views across, then he should,ve told them this was the crappiest deal ever to be put to members. we did,nt want it,,,d.o. staff anyway. you can say a million times that it was voted in,, but that just doesnt wash. it was sold to us by the union heirarchy, saying there was no plan b and it was in our best interests to accept the shyte. we were sold down the river,, end of.

[fishtank]

Whats the point of all these threads on failing revisons if when the CWU goes into the lions den of 900 operational , planning and HR managers that it does not tell the business as blunt as it could be that Royal Mail`s strategy for delivery is not working and they need to revisit it.

Depends what kind of outcome there is.
If it's just 900 managers fiddling with themselves and thinking what the buffet might hold then really you've just made an arse of yourself and when the pictures come out in the Courier with Dave and Mark smiling for the camera the members will feel let down again.
The only point in going to something like this would be if you thought it would make a real measurable difference.
Do you think it has?
Are the talks actually going anywhere?
Will there be any real change of policy over the revisions?
Will we ever see our colleagueshare money?
Conference and the Emergency Motion was in May....it's almost December.

[Martin Walsh]

Your right you can look at this in a number of ways. Under Leighton or Crozier the CWU were never even told about this kind of meetings.

This time both the CWU and CMA were invited and to speak as well. Now I can only tell you what some of the managers I have spoken at meetings since that event on Tuesday and they did listen to Dave and they all commented on what he said about the delivery revisions and they also mentioned that for the first time Mark Higson mentioned that all was not well with delivery revisons.

Now remember up to now , people like Mark Higson , Steve Cameron were the authors of the delivery strategy and business plan and they have been reluctant to admit for obvious that their plan was not working.

Now I think your right its where this will go from here.

Certainly talks have intensed , and the talks have split into the function issues , with some progress on the functional aspects being made. Hopefully a further update will be sent out soon

[Martin Walsh]

dingo, if dave doesnt mince his words when putting members views across, then he should,ve told them this was the crappiest deal ever to be put to members. we did,nt want it,,,d.o. staff anyway. you can say a million times that it was voted in,, but that just doesnt wash. it was sold to us by the union heirarchy, saying there was no plan b and it was in our best interests to accept the shyte. we were sold down the river,, end of.

Look you can say a billion times you did not want it and you did not vote for it but it was voted in and the ballot was conducted by an independent outside company. There is always a plan b and the plan b would have been more strike action. Yes the Postal Executive recommended the agreement because the majority of the PEC voted for it. However the Way Forward was rejected by the members even thou the Postal Executive recommended the agreement.

Only 8 CWU Branch`s got a majoirty NO vote. Now in terms of being sold down the river , I have heard so many times before over the 26 years I have been in the job. I have always think that to judge an agreement , on what would we have gained striking to stop Royal Mail introducing CSS machines , delivery best praticse revisons , park and loop , removing the cap on door to door. I dont think we would have stopped it , some of us were out 18 days before the national dispute and still Royal Mail were not saying we are stopping their plan for increased automation etc.

[daveyeff]

no, it was voted on BECAUSE it was recommended.,,,,,there was reps/area reps/div reps going to offices BEFORE the vote. people were influenced by what they said, and were coaxed to vote for it under the pretence we were cutting our own throats if we didnt accept it. my bitter, BITTER regret is that a lot of members didnt use their vote and gave the ''deal'' a yes vote in not voting. had every d.o. postman voted their true feelings towards it, then it wouldnt have been voted in, in a trillion years. if the deal was that good then it would,nt have needed to be sold to us. we would,ve chose it under our own steam instead of being persuaded. we had them on the canvass twice, and twice they were allowed to beat the bloody count.

[General Mannerheim]

Even Hitler appeared to conceed points to Chamberlin so Higson bleatings are nothing to shout about.

[dvbuk55]

Yes everythings wonderful, the leadership are right, the deal was wonderful, nobody lost any money, there is a national 75/25 split and we are going fast down the tube. So Mark Higson has admitted everything is not quite right, so can we see a change of direction, are we going to park the vans back in the field, are we going back to a sensible approach to workload and delivery methods...................at a guess I'd say NO. I get the feeling some on here are totally overawed by the glitterati set and hang on their every word as though they have just come down from the mountain carrying two tablets of stone, which they are going to tie round our ankles and dump us in deep water.

[fishtank]

Even Hitler appeared to conceed points to Chamberlin so Higson bleatings are nothing to shout about.

Is he a hawk or a dove?
I can never remember....

[dvbuk55]

Even Hitler appeared to conceed points to Chamberlin so Higson bleatings are nothing to shout about.

Is he a hawk or a dove?
I can never remember....

Perhaps he's on the road to Damascus, who knows maybe he'll stand for GS at the next elections of CWU

[POSTMAN]

these are the same managers who are driving these revisions and implementing unrealistic targets.

s**t rolls downhill,and will continue to roll,will DSM's,DOM's and linos change their attitude after this,of course not,the muppets will still be scared of their own shadow and those from above.

[daveyeff]

gs elections?? hayesy just walks back in every time,,,unchallenged.