any other offices been shafted ? ? ? ?

[Pat Ostman]

You were lucky to get a vote, a lot of PT posties in our office were excluded as the vote took place before their start time.

[Cut Off King]

DINGO wrote

The simple answer is dont agree the revision. The agreement allows you to have them.

In my office the rep decides everything, there was no vote on duty structures etc. He decides what the office should have.

[mailmonkey]

The simple answer is dont agree the revision. The agreement allows you to have them. The national agreement does not state you have to work at 100BSi .

Dingo, I hate to sound like a broken record, but I know that that's exactly what I'm sounding like.

You have NEVER responded to me directly on this point, depsite me bringing it up in response to your posts on a number of occasions.

WE (members and local rep) DID NOT AGREE the revision. We stood firm. AREA AND DIV REP signed it off.

Can ypou please explain to me why you keep telling people they will be protected if they stand firm? DIV rep CATEGORICALLY STATED that if it wasn't signed off, RM would bring it in under EA, He (div rep) would turn his back on us, and our office would be swamped with managers harrassing every single one of us.

Can you respond to me directly this time?

EDIT>>>>>>>dingo, I REALLY want your thoughts on this...are we a "weak office"? should we go above Div Rep level?

FTR, I think the London issues are important, and I have every sympathy for our brothers in London.

[Pat Ostman]

Dingo will only answer questions that shows the CWU in a positive light. You are better off banging your head against a wall and it'll probably get you a quicker answer

[mailmonkey]

Dingo will only answer questions that shows the CWU in a positive light.

Hmmmm, guess he won't be answering any questios from now on then.....

[Martin Walsh]

Mail monkey I would never ever go over the local reps or members views so I hope that answers your question. In my view the rep and the members must have the final say. Yes sometimes a senior rep has to put some reality into the situration. But I can say with 100% clairity I would not sign an office off without the support of the members and rep.

I do not know the details of your situration or the view of your divisional reps so it is hard to comment. But I accept your view.

Personally I think its is a weak excuse to say to an office management will just bring it in by executive action. The fact is that no office has been introduced by executive action thus far. The concern for Royal Mail is that their problem is offices which have always been up for change and have co-operated fully in the past with revisions etc have basically collasped with the introduction of intregrated revsions not through the staff not trying to make it work but the fact that the change is too big and managements targets for IWT and geo route are unworkable.

So unlike Pat Osman I am happy to tell you my views. Perhaps others on here can tell me what they want the union to fight on considering most on here say they would not support the CWU. Oh and Dvbuk the national talks does include job security. London Branch"s supported the national policy which includes colleague share , pension issues , a review of the agreement and to see the new business plan.

[wayoutman]

dingo, the rolling contract thing needs some attention.

how about after 6 months you automatically get a permanent contract?

[Glenno]

"The fact is that no office has been introduced by executive action thus far. " Dingo I beg to differ

[demon]

we have in our office they said it was someting they could never do

[mailmonkey]

Thanks for answering my question dingo.

Why are there (some) div and area reps still in place who are spreading misinformation, going above members and local rep's heads, and threatening members with EA. I see no difference in the way we were spoken to (talked down to actually) by our area and div reps, and the way Area management spoke to us....same threats, same style, same complete lack of empathy....

[stokes11eg]

The simple answer is dont agree the revision. The agreement allows you to have them. The national agreement does not state you have to work at 100BSi .

Some times you have to go to disagreement and hold the line. The reality is that if you hold your line then you should get support from your Branch and National level.

Fishtank I really dont know where your coming from on this issue. Certainly I would say I have a bigger view of the overall picture and I dont any self preservation happening.

What I do see on this site is that London members seem to not count to some on here as having a right to be protected. The reality is that London stands up for itself and that means we have some power and Royal Mail do listen to that. If another office always surrenders to anything where do you think Royal Mail will attack 9 times out of ten.

London is not the enemy , Royal Mail"s attacks are the problem and yet most on here still attack the London membership for daring to fight what it believes is complusory redundnacies. You could not make it up.

EH? You do not seem to realise that it is the Reps who , along with mangement push these things through!

[Phantom]

So unlike Pat Osman I am happy to tell you my views. Perhaps others on here can tell me what they want the union to fight on considering most on here say they would not support the CWU. Oh and Dvbuk the national talks does include job security. London Branch"s supported the national policy which includes colleague share , pension issues , a review of the agreement and to see the new business plan.

I want the union to go for a national strike and the strike days should be Mondays for all mail centres and saturdays for all deliveries and have the following demands :-

Restore our PENSIONS back to final salary (The one where the union gave it away without a fight by splitting it away 2 years ago on the last IA)
Union reps should NOT be helping managers to cut duties (This means any work done on office revisions)
DSA needs tackling and should NEVER have been agreed with
D2D payments need reinstating for delivery staff we are now losing money delivering these
COLLAPSING of duties should NEVER have been agreed nor should the 30min flexibility (Royal mail wanted 30mins and asked for 2 hours, CWU agreed on 30mins!)

the list could go on and on......

[Cut Off King]

I want the union to go for a national strike and the strike days should be Mondays for all mail centres and saturdays for all deliveries and have the following demands :-

Restore our PENSIONS back to final salary (The one where the union gave it away without a fight by splitting it away 2 years ago on the last IA)
Union reps should NOT be helping managers to cut duties (This means any work done on office revisions)
DSA needs tackling and should NEVER have been agreed with
D2D payments need reinstating for delivery staff we are now losing money delivering these
COLLAPSING of duties should NEVER have been agreed nor should the 30min flexibility (Royal mail wanted 30mins and asked for 2 hours, CWU agreed on 30mins!)

the list could go on and on......

Thats not bad for starters.....

[belle smith]

Perhaps others on here can tell me what they want the union to fight on considering most on here say they would not support the CWU.

The things we went out to strike about in the not to distant past.....here's a clue

managements targets for IWT and geo route are unworkable.

We/The union agreed to these programmes being used to in advance of the parameters being agreed, as far as i can see the unworkable targets are management/union targets! which are routenly used to bully staff, which often results in those staff working unpaid either by starting early or working through their M/R.

Ontop of that dingo the procedures for refusing overtime are an invitation to bully staff, i would like the Union to unilatrally tell RM and there members you we are not employed to manage the provision of the USO. The onus of managing workload lies with managers they must ask staff if they think they will complete on time, if not they must ask the OPG if they would like to work extended or what should be left. anything not completed on time can simply be taken back to the office without accusations of criminality or threats of disaplinery action!

I won't hold my breath.

[Gazza90000]

you do seem to be the unions biggest critic at the moment fish

not having a go, just telling it like it is

There is no point hiding from the truth...you don't learn anything that way.
I am a big fan of unions in general and have been a union member all my working life and a member of the CWU for many years.
I am seriously concerned about the direction the union is taking at national level,those who are steering that particular course and the culture of self preservation at branch and national level that appears to be overriding the wishes and aspirations of the membership they are paid to represent.
Other than that i love the union.

Thats a fair criticism given that I have also experienced nothing but self preservation at the Area Level.