Delivery spans

[Danelectro]

I would consider contacting the people responsible for the Fatigue Study.

I can provide you with contact details if you need.

They should be able to provide clear advice on what the study deems "Deliveries with Stairs".

The Summary of Recommendations does say:
Delivery spans for deliveries with a high proportion of "old-style tenements" should not be extended beyond 3:30hrs.

By old style tenements I presume it means 3 or 4 up and not the 2 ups you seem to have.
It would be a fairly simple job to attach a heart rate monitor to a few of your colleagues for a week to see if their heart rates are above acceptable levels.

Might take you up on the contact details,our office has a mix of 5,4,3 and 2up(as you put it),i did see the old style tenements
comment(which apparently means before 1900) but also the 3 and 4up 1970's tenements are being included.

But as far as fatigue goes im looking at it from the total number of stairs climbed,the heart monitor results show that 3up and 4up is pushing the heart rate up to uncomfortable levels but is this the only element of fatigue that climbing stairs should
be judged on? The study also mentioned that joint injuries didnt seem to be any higher on stair deliveries than deliveries on the flat which was surprising but not sure how conclusive it was or if enough offices were involved but i suppose ive got to take their word on it.

So you can have one housing estate of 3 and 4 up and another estate with say 60% 2up and the rest 3 up,the delivery on the first estate will be restricted to 3.5 with extra breaks but the delivery on the second estate can be 4.5.Obviously the second
delivery total number of stairs dwarfs the first but even when the 3up and 2 up are compared on 3.5 hrs then the total number of stairs is often more on the 2 up.

But if 2up dont count then just got to get on with it

[DirtyHarry]

Remember the agreement states most walks should be finish by 2 , the vast majority by 2:30 and dont give ground , to either management or reps.

[mailmonkey]

dingo » Today, 15:55
Mail monkey , the span will depend on as fishtank says when you get your second wave of squenced mail and the time it then takes to prep , tie up, redirections etc what time you can leave your office.

If that is 0900 then it will then be down to your rep to argue the following t

dingo I'm not just jumping on you for the sake of it.

Our rep has worked and worked, along with the dep rep to make sure things have been done pproperly.

Our area rep constantly assured us it would al be fine and kept on and on insisting that our rep should sign up to the revision.

Our rep, quite rightly given the conditions in our office refused.

The div rep came down and bullied and threatened those who attended the meeting (less than 30% of the office), and managed to achieve what HE described as a mandate for signing the revision off, an open balot in a saucepan on a table, only open to those presnt as I said, less than 30% of office.

It doesn't matter howvalid our reasons, it doesn't mater what our rep says/does, CWU at AREA and DIV level are sidelining him, overruling him, and making no effort to tackle our managment.

[clashcityrocker]

If there is a "fatigue" study then it should be available in full for all reps to review and get familiar with..

The Fatigue Study is for deliveries that are predominantly steps - that is flats/tenements.
The 3hr 30 limit on delivery spans is a bit of a two-edged sword.
Yes it limits the delivery span but it also limits the number of f/t posts an office can sustain.
If we were to implement it in its purest form our offfice would go from a 50/50 f/t p/t split to 35/65 overnight.

The more f/t staff you have or want, the longer the delivery span needs to be.

[OnAFlyer]

If you have WSM flyer it shouldn't take you an hour and a half to get your IPS up unless you are seriously undermanned or more likely not getting the % sequenced from the mailcentre that you were promised.

We are understaffed as far as FT goes. We've got PT staff coming in at 9 to do walks that should be FT.

Yes we have got WSM and IPS hasn't changed one bit, if anything we get more. We only have 6-7 staff on IPS (50 walks in total, 30ish of those FT) for 30 mins or so, then some go and prep PT walks leaving 2-3 to do all the rest of the IPS inc all the second wave that comes in after.

2-3 yorks of flats and a york of letters takes a long time when there's only a couple of staff sorting!

We start at 6.30. Get off IPS and PT walks around 8, prep our own walks until 9, take a 20 min break then finish off prepping and get tied up and out the door for around 10. hence 3.5hrs + 30 mins travelling time takes us to around 2pm, duty end is 2.18.

[fishtank]

What i've seen in some offices is one member of the p&l pair on IPS and the other prepping the two shifts.
Don't mention it to your manager though or you might find that span getting longer.

[Danelectro]

Yes it limits the delivery span but it also limits the number of f/t posts an office can sustain.
If we were to implement it in its purest form our offfice would go from a 50/50 f/t p/t split to 35/65 overnight.

Got that problem in my office,if we got the 3.5 restriction on most of the deliveries then with 85% WSM(thats
what they say ) then a couple of FT jobs might go,they want 4.15 but trying for a compromise span somewhere
in between,got to balance keeping/increasing FT with trying to create deliveries that older members can manage.

Also got to remember that increasing delivery spans means less deliveries and that leads to some PT staff being paid off.
If only we had a 35hr week like them at the Broadway then problem solved!

[DirtyHarry]

The Fatigue Study is for deliveries that are predominantly steps - that is flats/tenements.
The 3hr 30 limit on delivery spans is a bit of a two-edged sword.
Yes it limits the delivery span but it also limits the number of f/t posts an office can sustain.
If we were to implement it in its purest form our offfice would go from a 50/50 f/t p/t split to 35/65 overnight.

The more f/t staff you have or want, the longer the delivery span needs to be.

SO I don`t get fatigued doing over four hours a day on delivery because I don`t have many steps or flats and tenements?

That`s bollox

The longer a delivery span the less overall walks you need in an office and less people that office will need to function.

Exactly.

[OnAFlyer]

What i've seen in some offices is one member of the p&l pair on IPS and the other prepping the two shifts.
Don't mention it to your manager though or you might find that span getting longer.

I'm not sure what's going to happen tbh - quite a few of the pairings are going to have a PT walk on them though (or 2 PT together) so that rules those out for one on IPS and one throwing off.

I don't know how it works in other offices, but some of our FT walk staff are in the locker doing specials in the morning, some do PO box duties etc so we never have all our FT staff on IPS. Plus we're losing around 10% of walks in the revision so that's even less staff.

[vigilante]

Delivery Method
Max Delivery Span (Hrs)*
Notes
Foot with Pouch on shoulder
3.5
Reduce by 0.5 for multiple hills/stairs & consider scheduling of breaks. Adhere to reduced weights as specified in the risk assessment manual
Cycle
4.0
Can increase to 5.0 if travel out/back is by vehicle
High Capacity Trolley
5.0
Can increase to 5.5 if travel out/back is by vehicle
Electric trolley
3.5
Span is restricted due to use on steep terrain
Shared delivery with light weight trolley
6.0
Shared delivery with MB43 mini pouches (8kg)
3.5
Vehicle (Rural/Bulk)
7.5
Effectively this is a full duty when travel is included
*Assumes an average 30 mins daily travel in addition.

It's in the duty design principles Ricky.
...but as dingo would say...the delivery span depends on when you get your second batch etc.
I don't think anyone could have spans anywhere near the maximums...unless you have a 10hr day to play with.

If the shared van and mini pouches are supposed to be 3.5 hrs how come we are trialling 4 hr deliverys?

7.0 hour delivery? mmm lovely!!
We do five now and thats plenty!!!

[MickR]

Seems the main aim of any revision from the CWU point of view is to achieve as many full time jobs as possible, i know the div rep draws it like a gun! We have always wanted to maximise F/T but do we want it at any cost? Spans of 4.5hrs are bad enough, too long in my view and have taken the job away from truly being an equal opportunities job, I honestly believe it is now a young persons job. But 6hrs with lightweight trolley? 7.5hrs for a rural? Even allowing for all the replenishment and travelling times etc it is still a ridiculous span, not one that is sustainable in the long term.

Div reps and above repeat the "full time jobs" like a mantra, but are they going to be around when all their members are off on long term sick and/or going through ill health retirement because of the impact of these ridiculous spans on their body? I doubt it! I know CWU HQ are sabre rattling at the moment in respect of Royal Mail trying to distance themselves from the part of B&T which deals with job losses (can't call it "no compulsory redundancies", it doesn't say that, and a member of the NEC told us they could never got an agreement to "no compulsory redundancies", despite what CWU HQ is saying now) Personally don't think they have to worry about compulsory redundancies for delivery staff, they will have been paid off on health grounds long before that particular scenario rears it's ugly head!

Some years ago when Billy Hayes stood for General Secretary he said that this union had "Lost the plot" Well he was right then, but unfortunately it is still true now!

[POSTMAN]

Seems the main aim of any revision from the CWU point of view is to achieve as many full time jobs as possible

I don't give 2 f*cks about that,i will help and do my best at my office with the staff that is there now (we don't have many part timers anyway) and if 'manageable' duty specs mean that there are more part timers 'coming into' the office then that's it.

[chunk]

The union has got to get its priorities right.
baby ? bathwater?
they spend to much time worrying about securing bonus payments / full to part timer ratios etc
and have failed to maintain our basic health and safety.
If my round is unachievable then all these other issues dont mean a thing.

[bexhil palace]

If my delivery span is unacheivable, i'm bringing that bad boy back, no if's no but's.
Let them prove i'm not doing my job properly.

[DirtyHarry]

The Fatigue Study is for deliveries that are predominantly steps - that is flats/tenements.
The 3hr 30 limit on delivery spans is a bit of a two-edged sword.
Yes it limits the delivery span but it also limits the number of f/t posts an office can sustain.
If we were to implement it in its purest form our offfice would go from a 50/50 f/t p/t split to 35/65 overnight.

The more f/t staff you have or want, the longer the delivery span needs to be.

SO I don`t get fatigued doing over four hours a day on delivery because I don`t have many steps or flats and tenements?

That`s bollox

The longer a delivery span the less overall walks you need in an office and less people that office will need to function.

Exactly.

People can`t see the wood for the trees but they will when they have walks ripped out of their offices and they are off down to the job centre because Royal Mail decided yet again that less people can do more work.

The "line in the sand" should have been drawn by the CWU a long time ago.
As it now stands, there is no limit to the amount of walking a postman/woman is expected to do, neither is there a limit as to the amount of workload that a postman/woman is expected to labour under.
Health & safety? Surely, just a sad joke now. On us.