Van sharing?? Rights n wrongs

[clashcityrocker]

Anyone pulling a trolley around with 1 pouch and 2 bundles in it because 'thats what we're supposed to do' is brain dead.

Anyone who doesn't understand we are in the s**t we are in because people don't do the job properly (indeed are obsessed with doing it quickly) is brain dead.

[jockstrapp]

We were all giving trolleys in 13 div n 7 div in Belfast, for van sharing also linked to health and safety I believe yet there's guys getting out of their vans and using pouch bags over their shoulders like the old days... Are they breaking the rules and should the guys doing the job properly report these guys to the management???
I will tell u why!!

I do the job properly, get out of the van set up my trolley and away I go, however the other guy covering me on my day off uses a bag... So he's obviously faster as he's taking short cuts and not pulling a trolley along.... Then the manager says, how come such and such is able to complete much more than you and your the regular man!!!

These people r scum

The first time my manager gives me this s**t then the B&H form goes in.

[wf]

Same old story again isnt it! gone

Same selfish posties breaking all the rules again..
They used their cars for years , worked breaks and ran round deliveries.
Now they are carrying bags,working breaks,changing loops etc etc

The trolleys were a god send for anyone with a bad back etc.
I think anyone who is not using these trolleys should be reported immediately to the dom
and if he fails to sort it,go higher and higher ,right up to emailing moyra greene if need to be.
This b and h is reallly starting to kick in, and we are leaving ourselves wide open for it!

[its Only Me]

town centre walking men have always used pouches for years along with the heavy trolley.
they lock up the trolley and take a bit with them in pouch and come back and do a bit more.

[moondustprince]

We were all giving trolleys in 13 div n 7 div in Belfast, for van sharing also linked to health and safety I believe yet there's guys getting out of their vans and using pouch bags over their shoulders like the old days... Are they breaking the rules and should the guys doing the job properly report these guys to the management???
I will tell u why!!

I do the job properly, get out of the van set up my trolley and away I go, however the other guy covering me on my day off uses a bag... So he's obviously faster as he's taking short cuts and not pulling a trolley along.... Then the manager says, how come such and such is able to complete much more than you and your the regular man!!!

These people r scum

Until you stand up to these wide boy types you will get know where with this problem. Do you think they give a toss about you ???? NO THEY DON`T ..... so square up to the problem and inform the management what they are doing, and stop being taken for a mug

[Guevarista]

If you carry more than 8 kilos in a 'handbag', then you'll have no one to blame but yourself if you pick up a stress injury and/or suffer a trip or fall. Do the job properly and leave the management to sort out the excess!

[Terry Butcher]

I really don't understand some people's fervent insistence on doing everything completely "by the book". My attitude is that i don't get paid enough to commit so much of my time and effort to Royal Mail. I will use a pouch on my back on some of my smaller loops on a light day, a trolley for a bundle and two packets is overkill, no matter how you look at it. Why waste the time and effort pissing about with a trolley on such an occassion? The Walks after "Park and Loop" are too big regardless, if you are going to cut off/take overtime anyway why make life more difficult for yourself just for the sake of it? It's like cutting your nose off to spite your face. A point commonly emphasised on this forum is that we are all entitled to work to our time and no more, so do just that. Don't worry about what other people are/aren't doing. And for the record, I've found that there is very MINIMAL difference in time between using a pouch on the back and using a trolley, in fact, the trolley is probably quicker on heavy days. Anyone boasting about saving more than 15 minutes by using just a pouch is lying.

I reckon that this topic highlights a complete lack of flexibility on behalf of Royal Mail in how the postman today is allowed to do his job. Pouches over the back should be a viable option should the situation dictate it ie light days, small loops etc etc. Everyone is different, some may prefer a pouch on most occasions and some may swear by the trolley on all occasions, Royal Mail should afford the postman the opportunity to choose which one suits him best (within reason). I fail to see how eliminating a popular and viable delivery method (pouch on back) completely can be considered "modernising".

I get on with it, and that phrase isn't interchangeable with "rushing around". By it i mean i prep and deliver by the methods that make the most sense to ME. If that makes me "scum" in your eyes - so be it. I really couldn't care less. I'm not trying to save time or cut corners, I'm trying to make the job a little bit easier for myself. Going by the anger/stress/dispair of the people on this forum some might do well to try the same.

[fishtank]

. I'm not trying to save time or cut corners, I'm trying to make the job a little bit easier for myself.

So where do you draw the line?
What would you not do to make the job a little bit easier....for yourself?
The use of the correct delivery methods assigned to your duty is mandatory so you are already in breach of the conduct code so why stop there...or do you have another one of these in built common sense meters?

[clashcityrocker]

It is the "within reason" bit of your post that nullifies it.
Why not continue using your bike if you want to? But what happens if/when you have an accident? Or should I say an incident.
Carry on using your pouch because it is "sensible", but don't expect RM to be "sensible" when it comes to using the conduct code.

It isn't a fervent desire to do everything by the book that drives us, but a fervent desire to protect our members (frequently from themselves)

[dvbuk55]

It is the "within reason" bit of your post that nullifies it.
Why not continue using your bike if you want to? But what happens if/when you have an accident? Or should I say an incident.
Carry on using your pouch because it is "sensible", but don't expect RM to be "sensible" when it comes to using the conduct code.

It isn't a fervent desire to do everything by the book that drives us, but a fervent desire to protect our members (frequently from themselves)

Conduct code? Do they actually have one down there?

[OnAFlyer]

Anyone pulling a trolley around with 1 pouch and 2 bundles in it because 'thats what we're supposed to do' is brain dead.

Anyone who doesn't understand we are in the s**t we are in because people don't do the job properly (indeed are obsessed with doing it quickly) is brain dead.

It's got absolutely nothing to do with doing the job quicker, it's common sense. Why would you fold out a trolley and hang a bag on it just to carry 1 bundle? Because you're 'supposed' to?

It makes me laugh when I continually read posts on here saying people not doing the job properly is the reason we're in the s**t.

Yeah right, and if we'd all just dragged our feet and made the walks last until time we'd never have gotten hours taken out of offices,longer walks, CDV's etc? Wake up for gods sake

[POSTMAN]

Isn't the crux of this thread and all those who do things for their own good this...
Then the manager says, how come such and such is able to complete much more than you and your the regular man!!!

[fishtank]

The crux of the thread is that some people will never change.
In what strange world is it easier or more sensible to carry mail on your back rather than in a trolley?
It is quicker though....so who benefits from that when you are forced to work your hours anyway?

[Terry Butcher]

The crux of the thread is that some people will never change.
In what strange world is it easier or more sensible to carry mail on your back rather than in a trolley?
It is quicker though....so who benefits from that when you are forced to work your hours anyway?

In the same strange world where it's easier to paint a fence with a wide decorators brush than a fine artist's brush. It's funny, it's worked for hundreds of years, but now all of a sudden it's stupid because some H&S guru at the top says so...after being told he has to cut the amount RM has to pay out on an annual basis for people who over do it (Hence the "within reason" part). Money rules the world, any change you see in the workplace is down to someone, somewhere trying to squeeze more and more money out of the company. Job losses, poorer working conditions etc etc happen because the fat cats want more money and make more cuts, not because Timmy can do a walk 15 minutes quicker than Tommy. The misconduct of your peers is a ready made excuse to turn to when the fat cats want more money and make a change. It's too easy.

I get the impression that the "by the book" brigade are bitter at the few who use their initiative and manage to make the best out of a bad situation, so they harp on about how it is killing the job in a bizzare attempt to justify behaviour that has got them nowhere for years on end. The cut-troat paranoia amongst posties initiated by management to divert attention from their great money grab seems to be working a treat. Keep swallowing the propaganda and follow like sheep. If i wish to break the rules then that's my perogative, I and I alone will face the consequences. Stay out of my business and I'll stay out of yours. It's human nature to look after number one, and when it comes down to it that is what anyone will do. A universal postman's moral unity doesn't exist,and if it did it certainly wouldn't play a major role on how the company evolves, why go out of your way to make life difficult for the sake of a fallacy? If they want to make changes and cuts - they will. The minor differences in the way you or I do the job has no bearing on the matter, at least not a big enough one to influence the inevitable changes that are coming our way. The runners, car users etc etc disregard for the rule book hasn't initiated park and loop, I don't know whether you have noticed that we are in/slowly emerging from the deepest recession for many years.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

It makes me laugh when I continually read posts on here saying people not doing the job properly is the reason we're in the s**t.

Its not the only reason but it certainly makes life difficult for the average hard working honest posties. If common sense is not used on both sides of this argument then RM the CWU and RMC are just going to keep trying to square the circle.

Yeah right, and if we'd all just dragged our feet and made the walks last until time we'd never have gotten hours taken out of offices,longer walks, CDV's etc? Wake up for gods sake

Shirley your not that naive are you.

Here are a few common situations and my humble suggestion for sorting them

If RM set rules and conduct you for not following them (which is the default position I think) - Follow the rules using common sense.

If they adjust the settings on a duty so they know it cant be done unless you break the rules. - Stick to the rules rigidly until common sense is applied

If Postmen regularly finish their duty early - test the duty and if justified add more to the duty after all we agreed to working all paid hours didn't we.

If postmen regularly claim overtime on their own duty - test the duty and adjust it if justified.

If 2 posties are finishing the same duty on average at completely different times (or 1 always finishing early and 1 always late) - Both should be tested by CWU and RM and common sense applied - ie more training if the slow one is at fault and an explanation of the rules if the "runner" is not doing the job to spec (door stepping, signing overloaded bags etc)


However - in the end people working unpaid overtime, those not pulling their weight, and those cutting corners all cause problems for the AVERAGE postie and they are the ones we need to change. Its simple and I just don't get this circular argument - we are paid between certain hours and as long as you work hard during them and don't take stupid risks I have no problems. However if you drag your arse, take the piss out of your colleagues or do things that impact adversely on them, then I hope you eventually see the light.

Lazy Posties and just as bad as blinkered ones.