Customer not able to speak English

[Indy]

Definitely some interesting perspectives on this!

As RM is like 350 years old they must have an official rule on this.... wonder what it is? also how would you go about finding out!

[TeeferTiger]

i had an interesting one today. i knocked him up about 08:30 (tee hee hee) west indian guy comes to the door, eventually. "parcel for you" says i, "i need you to sign so i just need your surname" of course he's already pissed off cos i'd knocked him up. "i don't give out me surname" he says. "well i need a signature" i says. "i can't let you have the parcel without it". "you new int you?" he says. "no i've been on post for years and been here several times and the lady usually gives me her name, but if you don't want to sign.......". he then says "i dint say me no sign, i say i don't give out me surname. u can put anyting in that machine an i sign it" so i just typed an L in the pda, just cos it was the first letter my stylus landed on and sure enough he signed it! weird!

No name, no signature. First name would've done! lol

I'd have said that to him and if he still refused, given him a P739 and got him to collect it from the office, with his ID and then the RLE staff could put his name in. Although, the parcel would've had a name on. I'd ask him if the parcel was for him. If he said yes, I'd copy the name off the parcel. If he said no and refused to give a name, he'd get a P739.

I'm not in the mood to f**k about with arseholes on their doorsteps. If they want the item, they adhere to the rules, if they don't, then I'll take it back refused.

[Indy]

i had an interesting one today. i knocked him up about 08:30 (tee hee hee) west indian guy comes to the door, eventually. "parcel for you" says i, "i need you to sign so i just need your surname" of course he's already pissed off cos i'd knocked him up. "i don't give out me surname" he says. "well i need a signature" i says. "i can't let you have the parcel without it". "you new int you?" he says. "no i've been on post for years and been here several times and the lady usually gives me her name, but if you don't want to sign.......". he then says "i dint say me no sign, i say i don't give out me surname. u can put anyting in that machine an i sign it" so i just typed an L in the pda, just cos it was the first letter my stylus landed on and sure enough he signed it! weird!

No name, no signature. First name would've done! lol

I'd have said that to him and if he still refused, given him a P739 and got him to collect it from the office, with his ID and then the RLE staff could put his name in. Although, the parcel would've had a name on. I'd ask him if the parcel was for him. If he said yes, I'd copy the name off the parcel. If he said no and refused to give a name, he'd get a P739.

I'm not in the mood to f**k about with arseholes on their doorsteps. If they want the item, they adhere to the rules, if they don't, then I'll take it back refused.

I totally agree with you this is just somebody being an idiot... the genuinely not understanding or wanting to sign because they don't know what their signing for is different though.

[olilew]

i had an interesting one today. i knocked him up about 08:30 (tee hee hee) west indian guy comes to the door, eventually. "parcel for you" says i, "i need you to sign so i just need your surname" of course he's already pissed off cos i'd knocked him up. "i don't give out me surname" he says. "well i need a signature" i says. "i can't let you have the parcel without it". "you new int you?" he says. "no i've been on post for years and been here several times and the lady usually gives me her name, but if you don't want to sign.......". he then says "i dint say me no sign, i say i don't give out me surname. u can put anyting in that machine an i sign it" so i just typed an L in the pda, just cos it was the first letter my stylus landed on and sure enough he signed it! weird!

No name, no signature. First name would've done! lol

I'd have said that to him and if he still refused, given him a P739 and got him to collect it from the office, with his ID and then the RLE staff could put his name in. Although, the parcel would've had a name on. I'd ask him if the parcel was for him. If he said yes, I'd copy the name off the parcel. If he said no and refused to give a name, he'd get a P739.

I'm not in the mood to f**k about with arseholes on their doorsteps. If they want the item, they adhere to the rules, if they don't, then I'll take it back refused.

my mistake i shoulda mentioned the parcel didn't have the name on it just had the address. he actually said "what name does it say on the parcel". alarm bells ringing now! but i have, and the regular guy have been there several times. (i was covering his annual leave). looks dodgy now.

[Indy]

i had an interesting one today. i knocked him up about 08:30 (tee hee hee) west indian guy comes to the door, eventually. "parcel for you" says i, "i need you to sign so i just need your surname" of course he's already pissed off cos i'd knocked him up. "i don't give out me surname" he says. "well i need a signature" i says. "i can't let you have the parcel without it". "you new int you?" he says. "no i've been on post for years and been here several times and the lady usually gives me her name, but if you don't want to sign.......". he then says "i dint say me no sign, i say i don't give out me surname. u can put anyting in that machine an i sign it" so i just typed an L in the pda, just cos it was the first letter my stylus landed on and sure enough he signed it! weird!

No name, no signature. First name would've done! lol

I'd have said that to him and if he still refused, given him a P739 and got him to collect it from the office, with his ID and then the RLE staff could put his name in. Although, the parcel would've had a name on. I'd ask him if the parcel was for him. If he said yes, I'd copy the name off the parcel. If he said no and refused to give a name, he'd get a P739.

I'm not in the mood to f**k about with arseholes on their doorsteps. If they want the item, they adhere to the rules, if they don't, then I'll take it back refused.

I totally agree with you this is just somebody being an idiot... the genuinely not understanding or wanting to sign because they don't know what their signing for is different though.

.

Strangely I get that more when I knock at the door I can hear people and then it goes all quiet or you can see movement behind frosted glass. I knock again, no answer so 739 it. I go up 5 or 6 doors and somebody will come running out of that door waving the 739. then its "sorry didn't know who was at the door!" "well, if you opened it then you'd know!" "yes but you might be the police or somefing!".... I'd love to say "Somefing like eerrrr Immigration??" but think I might get in trouble even if I said it in obvious jest.... people are too sensitive these days.

Once after knocking twice and hearing movement I looked through the letterbox and could see 2 women's heads poking around an inside door. They quickly hid again so I said "Royal Mail.... a letter to sign for please!" no answer so more knocking... they were obviously in and it really annoyed me that they seemed to be playing such 'silly buggers' after I'd quite clearly seen that they were in. At first I thought that as they looked of middle eastern origin I thought that maybe they couldn't open the door to a man. Anyway I 739'd it and off I went. About 15 minutes later one of women came running up to me and forcibly thrust the 739 at me. I had a large bundle in my hand and some letters in the other I said "One moment" I was bowled over when she came out with a heavily accented "give me fu*king letter!" "errr... EXCUSE ME!" She repeaded it so I said you'll have to go to the Post Office. I'm most certainly not putting up with that!!! she literally started to shriek I just carried on with her following me shrieking. Thank God a police man heard and came to investigate.... I just said that she had to go to the Post Office to collect the letter (I didn't say I had it in my bag) he then bless him dealt with her. I have a policy that when anything like this happens I always tell my manager... at the time he was an O.K manager but he said I should have gotten a signature and given it to her! What are we teaching customers if we do? Be threatening and abusive and get what you want?????

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

i had an interesting one today. i knocked him up about 08:30 (tee hee hee) west indian guy comes to the door, eventually. "parcel for you" says i, "i need you to sign so i just need your surname" of course he's already pissed off cos i'd knocked him up. "i don't give out me surname" he says. "well i need a signature" i says. "i can't let you have the parcel without it". "you new int you?" he says. "no i've been on post for years and been here several times and the lady usually gives me her name, but if you don't want to sign.......". he then says "i dint say me no sign, i say i don't give out me surname. u can put anyting in that machine an i sign it" so i just typed an L in the pda, just cos it was the first letter my stylus landed on and sure enough he signed it! weird!

No name, no signature. First name would've done! lol

I'd have said that to him and if he still refused, given him a P739 and got him to collect it from the office, with his ID and then the RLE staff could put his name in. Although, the parcel would've had a name on. I'd ask him if the parcel was for him. If he said yes, I'd copy the name off the parcel. If he said no and refused to give a name, he'd get a P739.

I'm not in the mood to f**k about with arseholes on their doorsteps. If they want the item, they adhere to the rules, if they don't, then I'll take it back refused.

I totally agree with you this is just somebody being an idiot... the genuinely not understanding or wanting to sign because they don't know what their signing for is different though.

.

Strangely I get that more when I knock at the door I can hear people and then it goes all quiet or you can see movement behind frosted glass. I knock again, no answer so 739 it. I go up 5 or 6 doors and somebody will come running out of that door waving the 739. then its "sorry didn't know who was at the door!" "well, if you opened it then you'd know!" "yes but you might be the police or somefing!".... I'd love to say "Somefing like eerrrr Immigration??" but think I might get in trouble even if I said it in obvious jest.... people are too sensitive these days.

Once after knocking twice and hearing movement I looked through the letterbox and could see 2 women's heads poking around an inside door. They quickly hid again so I said "Royal Mail.... a letter to sign for please!" no answer so more knocking... they were obviously in and it really annoyed me that they seemed to be playing such 'silly buggers' after I'd quite clearly seen that they were in. At first I thought that as they looked of middle eastern origin I thought that maybe they couldn't open the door to a man. Anyway I 739'd it and off I went. About 15 minutes later one of women came running up to me and forcibly thrust the 739 at me. I had a large bundle in my hand and some letters in the other I said "One moment" I was bowled over when she came out with a heavily accented "give me fu*king letter!" "errr... EXCUSE ME!" She repeaded it so I said you'll have to go to the Post Office. I'm most certainly not putting up with that!!! she literally started to shriek I just carried on with her following me shrieking. Thank God a police man heard and came to investigate.... I just said that she had to go to the Post Office to collect the letter (I didn't say I had it in my bag) he then bless him dealt with her. I have a policy that when anything like this happens I always tell my manager... at the time he was an O.K manager but he said I should have gotten a signature and given it to her! What are we teaching customers if we do? Be threatening and abusive and get what you want?????

This has confused me somewhat... Ignoring the abusive situation, I only read on this forum within the last week that we are not supposed to hand over any items to someonne in the street where we have left a 739. After leaving a card, the customer is supposed to collect the item from the Callers Office or request re-delivery. Once again this forum is telling me rather important information that should be issued in initials postie training (if its true, of course)!

Yet your lino is saying hand over the item when someone runs down the stret flapping a 739. So which is the correct protocol?

Back in the summer I handed over two residential specials to customers flapping 739s I had left earlier that day. I did insist that I saw ID before letting them sign and then handing over the item.

[Indy]

My original post was to find out how other posties handled this situation and what the official RM line on it was.

Rightly or wrongly I believe in treating people how I'd like to be treated myself. Many times I've been on holiday and a local has gone out of their way to help me as a 'stupid bloody foreigner' trying to work out the correct bus to take etc. It takes me no time to write out a 739 for what might turn out to be a very important (to them!) letter. Yes, I agree that if it is important they should damn well sign for it but how many times have we gone that extra bit like checking names on a letter that has no street number etc. The general public appreciate it and its the sort of thing us posties say is part of the 'cherished public service' we are offering rather than the soon to be money, money money attitude to everything we do.

Sorry, if this sounds like I'm preaching! but it is Sunday morning!

My concern and worry in the current RM climate is that somebody might get annoyed enough at having to go to the Post Office that they complain despite my doing them a favour and that my manager would see that giving a person a 739 when there in as some sort of 'offence'.

[Indy]

i had an interesting one today. i knocked him up about 08:30 (tee hee hee) west indian guy comes to the door, eventually. "parcel for you" says i, "i need you to sign so i just need your surname" of course he's already pissed off cos i'd knocked him up. "i don't give out me surname" he says. "well i need a signature" i says. "i can't let you have the parcel without it". "you new int you?" he says. "no i've been on post for years and been here several times and the lady usually gives me her name, but if you don't want to sign.......". he then says "i dint say me no sign, i say i don't give out me surname. u can put anyting in that machine an i sign it" so i just typed an L in the pda, just cos it was the first letter my stylus landed on and sure enough he signed it! weird!

No name, no signature. First name would've done! lol

I'd have said that to him and if he still refused, given him a P739 and got him to collect it from the office, with his ID and then the RLE staff could put his name in. Although, the parcel would've had a name on. I'd ask him if the parcel was for him. If he said yes, I'd copy the name off the parcel. If he said no and refused to give a name, he'd get a P739.

I'm not in the mood to f**k about with arseholes on their doorsteps. If they want the item, they adhere to the rules, if they don't, then I'll take it back refused.

I totally agree with you this is just somebody being an idiot... the genuinely not understanding or wanting to sign because they don't know what their signing for is different though.

.

Strangely I get that more when I knock at the door I can hear people and then it goes all quiet or you can see movement behind frosted glass. I knock again, no answer so 739 it. I go up 5 or 6 doors and somebody will come running out of that door waving the 739. then its "sorry didn't know who was at the door!" "well, if you opened it then you'd know!" "yes but you might be the police or somefing!".... I'd love to say "Somefing like eerrrr Immigration??" but think I might get in trouble even if I said it in obvious jest.... people are too sensitive these days.

Once after knocking twice and hearing movement I looked through the letterbox and could see 2 women's heads poking around an inside door. They quickly hid again so I said "Royal Mail.... a letter to sign for please!" no answer so more knocking... they were obviously in and it really annoyed me that they seemed to be playing such 'silly buggers' after I'd quite clearly seen that they were in. At first I thought that as they looked of middle eastern origin I thought that maybe they couldn't open the door to a man. Anyway I 739'd it and off I went. About 15 minutes later one of women came running up to me and forcibly thrust the 739 at me. I had a large bundle in my hand and some letters in the other I said "One moment" I was bowled over when she came out with a heavily accented "give me fu*king letter!" "errr... EXCUSE ME!" She repeaded it so I said you'll have to go to the Post Office. I'm most certainly not putting up with that!!! she literally started to shriek I just carried on with her following me shrieking. Thank God a police man heard and came to investigate.... I just said that she had to go to the Post Office to collect the letter (I didn't say I had it in my bag) he then bless him dealt with her. I have a policy that when anything like this happens I always tell my manager... at the time he was an O.K manager but he said I should have gotten a signature and given it to her! What are we teaching customers if we do? Be threatening and abusive and get what you want?????

This has confused me somewhat... Ignoring the abusive situation, I only read on this forum within the last week that we are not supposed to hand over any items to someonne in the street where we have left a 739. After leaving a card, the customer is supposed to collect the item from the Callers Office or request re-delivery. Once again this forum is telling me rather important information that should be issued in initials postie training (if its true, of course)!

Yet your lino is saying hand over the item when someone runs down the stret flapping a 739. So which is the correct protocol?

Back in the summer I handed over two residential specials to customers flapping 739s I had left earlier that day. I did insist that I saw ID before letting them sign and then handing over the item.

This is the hugely strange thing about RM official rules appear to be implemented or not on the whim of the local DOM. I was called into the office about 6 weeks ago after a customer had complained that I didn't give them a 'signed for' 30 minutes after I'd left the door. I feel damned if I do damned if I don't. Its all well and good when it all goes to plan but the one time when the shite hits the fan its my job on the line and I just know that the DOM will find some excuse to make me liable despite his insistence that I hand over items to a customer with a 739.

Basically thats why I always ask "what's the official RM rule on this?" I can then turn around and say give me authorisation in writing to deviate from this official RM policy and I will otherwise 'go away' not surprisingly they 'go away'

[stokes11eg]

i had an interesting one today. i knocked him up about 08:30 (tee hee hee) west indian guy comes to the door, eventually. "parcel for you" says i, "i need you to sign so i just need your surname" of course he's already pissed off cos i'd knocked him up. "i don't give out me surname" he says. "well i need a signature" i says. "i can't let you have the parcel without it". "you new int you?" he says. "no i've been on post for years and been here several times and the lady usually gives me her name, but if you don't want to sign.......". he then says "i dint say me no sign, i say i don't give out me surname. u can put anyting in that machine an i sign it" so i just typed an L in the pda, just cos it was the first letter my stylus landed on and sure enough he signed it! weird!

No name, no signature. First name would've done! lol

I'd have said that to him and if he still refused, given him a P739 and got him to collect it from the office, with his ID and then the RLE staff could put his name in. Although, the parcel would've had a name on. I'd ask him if the parcel was for him. If he said yes, I'd copy the name off the parcel. If he said no and refused to give a name, he'd get a P739.

I'm not in the mood to f**k about with arseholes on their doorsteps. If they want the item, they adhere to the rules, if they don't, then I'll take it back refused.

I totally agree with you this is just somebody being an idiot... the genuinely not understanding or wanting to sign because they don't know what their signing for is different though.

.

Strangely I get that more when I knock at the door I can hear people and then it goes all quiet or you can see movement behind frosted glass. I knock again, no answer so 739 it. I go up 5 or 6 doors and somebody will come running out of that door waving the 739. then its "sorry didn't know who was at the door!" "well, if you opened it then you'd know!" "yes but you might be the police or somefing!".... I'd love to say "Somefing like eerrrr Immigration??" but think I might get in trouble even if I said it in obvious jest.... people are too sensitive these days.

Once after knocking twice and hearing movement I looked through the letterbox and could see 2 women's heads poking around an inside door. They quickly hid again so I said "Royal Mail.... a letter to sign for please!" no answer so more knocking... they were obviously in and it really annoyed me that they seemed to be playing such 'silly buggers' after I'd quite clearly seen that they were in. At first I thought that as they looked of middle eastern origin I thought that maybe they couldn't open the door to a man. Anyway I 739'd it and off I went. About 15 minutes later one of women came running up to me and forcibly thrust the 739 at me. I had a large bundle in my hand and some letters in the other I said "One moment" I was bowled over when she came out with a heavily accented "give me fu*king letter!" "errr... EXCUSE ME!" She repeaded it so I said you'll have to go to the Post Office. I'm most certainly not putting up with that!!! she literally started to shriek I just carried on with her following me shrieking. Thank God a police man heard and came to investigate.... I just said that she had to go to the Post Office to collect the letter (I didn't say I had it in my bag) he then bless him dealt with her. I have a policy that when anything like this happens I always tell my manager... at the time he was an O.K manager but he said I should have gotten a signature and given it to her! What are we teaching customers if we do? Be threatening and abusive and get what you want?????

This has confused me somewhat... Ignoring the abusive situation, I only read on this forum within the last week that we are not supposed to hand over any items to someonne in the street where we have left a 739. After leaving a card, the customer is supposed to collect the item from the Callers Office or request re-delivery. Once again this forum is telling me rather important information that should be issued in initials postie training (if its true, of course)!

Yet your lino is saying hand over the item when someone runs down the stret flapping a 739. So which is the correct protocol?

Back in the summer I handed over two residential specials to customers flapping 739s I had left earlier that day. I did insist that I saw ID before letting them sign and then handing over the item.

As long as you take the P739 from them, you should be O'k. and this should also be handed over if redelivering a parcel,although it rarely happens, but it's your only proof you have of redilivering

[NWpostie]

Re P739 and refusal to sign.

Miming is not too difficult, in my travels I got by in most Countries even in China, by drawing images sometimes, If I don't know enough Cantonese, Mandarin or Korean

So the customer must be really thick not to understand, indicating to him to sign, even using an "X", if he refuses, indicate to him (by drawing if needed) that the letter will go back to sender, if he still refuses, then its deffo a "Refused"

[Indy]

i had an interesting one today. i knocked him up about 08:30 (tee hee hee) west indian guy comes to the door, eventually. "parcel for you" says i, "i need you to sign so i just need your surname" of course he's already pissed off cos i'd knocked him up. "i don't give out me surname" he says. "well i need a signature" i says. "i can't let you have the parcel without it". "you new int you?" he says. "no i've been on post for years and been here several times and the lady usually gives me her name, but if you don't want to sign.......". he then says "i dint say me no sign, i say i don't give out me surname. u can put anyting in that machine an i sign it" so i just typed an L in the pda, just cos it was the first letter my stylus landed on and sure enough he signed it! weird!

No name, no signature. First name would've done! lol

I'd have said that to him and if he still refused, given him a P739 and got him to collect it from the office, with his ID and then the RLE staff could put his name in. Although, the parcel would've had a name on. I'd ask him if the parcel was for him. If he said yes, I'd copy the name off the parcel. If he said no and refused to give a name, he'd get a P739.

I'm not in the mood to f**k about with arseholes on their doorsteps. If they want the item, they adhere to the rules, if they don't, then I'll take it back refused.

I totally agree with you this is just somebody being an idiot... the genuinely not understanding or wanting to sign because they don't know what their signing for is different though.

.

Strangely I get that more when I knock at the door I can hear people and then it goes all quiet or you can see movement behind frosted glass. I knock again, no answer so 739 it. I go up 5 or 6 doors and somebody will come running out of that door waving the 739. then its "sorry didn't know who was at the door!" "well, if you opened it then you'd know!" "yes but you might be the police or somefing!".... I'd love to say "Somefing like eerrrr Immigration??" but think I might get in trouble even if I said it in obvious jest.... people are too sensitive these days.

Once after knocking twice and hearing movement I looked through the letterbox and could see 2 women's heads poking around an inside door. They quickly hid again so I said "Royal Mail.... a letter to sign for please!" no answer so more knocking... they were obviously in and it really annoyed me that they seemed to be playing such 'silly buggers' after I'd quite clearly seen that they were in. At first I thought that as they looked of middle eastern origin I thought that maybe they couldn't open the door to a man. Anyway I 739'd it and off I went. About 15 minutes later one of women came running up to me and forcibly thrust the 739 at me. I had a large bundle in my hand and some letters in the other I said "One moment" I was bowled over when she came out with a heavily accented "give me fu*king letter!" "errr... EXCUSE ME!" She repeaded it so I said you'll have to go to the Post Office. I'm most certainly not putting up with that!!! she literally started to shriek I just carried on with her following me shrieking. Thank God a police man heard and came to investigate.... I just said that she had to go to the Post Office to collect the letter (I didn't say I had it in my bag) he then bless him dealt with her. I have a policy that when anything like this happens I always tell my manager... at the time he was an O.K manager but he said I should have gotten a signature and given it to her! What are we teaching customers if we do? Be threatening and abusive and get what you want?????

This has confused me somewhat... Ignoring the abusive situation, I only read on this forum within the last week that we are not supposed to hand over any items to someonne in the street where we have left a 739. After leaving a card, the customer is supposed to collect the item from the Callers Office or request re-delivery. Once again this forum is telling me rather important information that should be issued in initials postie training (if its true, of course)!

Yet your lino is saying hand over the item when someone runs down the stret flapping a 739. So which is the correct protocol?

Back in the summer I handed over two residential specials to customers flapping 739s I had left earlier that day. I did insist that I saw ID before letting them sign and then handing over the item.

As long as you take the P739 from them, you should be O'k. and this should also be handed over if redelivering a parcel,although it rarely happens, but it's your only proof you have of redilivering

Its the "Should be O'K" that worries me... sat in an office with my manager and IB after I give a packet with an iPhone in it to a person waving a 739 he some how got fraudulently is not somewhere I want to go!

[TeeferTiger]

Exactly what I said lol I did the training on the PDAs and I was told that if someone refuses to give their name or sign etc, they don't get the item and you advise them that you'll be taking the item back as refused so it can be returned to sender. If they're not happy with that, then they have to sign. Or, they can go and collect it with ID from the callers office where they will have to give their name anyway. So, like I said, don't p*ss about with them on the doorstep. Politely advise that either they give you a name and then sign, or you return the item to sender. Simples.

[NWpostie]

See my reply Indy, I think a little clarity is needed, I understand your desire to do a proper job and helping them, they made the choice NOT to sign, any culture knows you need to sign to receive something, they also know what happens if its refused, it goes back.

[Indy]

Re P739 and refusal to sign.

Miming is not too difficult, in my travels I got by in most Countries even in China, by drawing images sometimes, If I don't know enough Cantonese, Mandarin or Korean

So the customer must be really thick not to understand, indicating to him to sign, even using an "X", if he refuses, indicate to him (by drawing if needed) that the letter will go back to sender, if he still refuses, then its deffo a "Refused"

Totally agree... talking about China I found that communicating in Shanghai was quite easy as most people seemed quite well educated but moving on round places like Xian proved more problematic especially the more abstract concepts. Anyway! I just want to say that most people understand what I want them to do i.e. sign my card thats not in my view the problem its that they don't know what their signing for. Is it something good or something bad. Don't forget one minute there sat watching telly next a bloke in an official looking uniform is wanting them to sign something. Its not hard to see why some foreign people are hesitant to do it. My view is that they be given some time via a 739 to find out more etc but not if it gets me the conduct code.

[Indy]

See my reply Indy, I think a little clarity is needed, I understand your desire to do a proper job and helping them, they made the choice NOT to sign, any culture knows you need to sign to receive something, they also know what happens if its refused, it goes back.

Thanks NWpostie I know it seems like I'm being overly concerned but it all goes back to situation with a 'signed for' medical appointment for a child. The English speaking partner thanked me later and told me about the contents.... for me a refusal has to be an informed decision not a default one.