are union in royal mail pockets

[dvbuk55]

I care, I have members to represent and look after.

My DOM aint gonna budge from the model week unless he is told he can and I aint goona agree to that model week if I dont think it is a sutiable period to use.

Sub Area Del Rep has registered disagrement on absorption as mangement want to increase it to 15% for every D.O in the area.

Yes I should have qualified that with who cares but you. As for registering disagreement under the agreement it says that disagreement should only be lodged in EXCEPTIONAL circumstances and that all minor issues should be discussed and resolved locally.....................now you have an area rep and som not agreeing and so............................what?

[Big Daz]

I dont recall "EXCEPTIONAL circumstances" for lodging dissagrement.

Anyway dissagrement is simply another way of asking the next level up for some help. One would think seeking help from the next level up is a entirely sensible thing to do

[fishtank]

I dont recall "EXCEPTIONAL circumstances" for lodging dissagrement.

Anyway dissagrement is simply another way of asking the next level up for some help. One would think seeking help from the next level up is a entirely sensible thing to do

The Industrial Relations Framework will still apply but the focus will be on joint problem solving and working together to develop practical solutions at local level. The formal disagreement procedure will only be used as a very last resort.

Very last resort...Exceptional circumstances.....potato...well potato again.

[Big Daz]

Well I can honestly say hand on heart Ive followed that to the letter and spirit!!!!!!!

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank Royal Mail have threatened to withdraw check off in the past under both lawful and unlawful industrial action , yet our union continued to have the most ballots of all unions and it has never stopped us.

I can recall Royal Mail on two occassions threatening the check off system in 1994 when wide spead un offical action took place in London and the union did not repuidaite in line with the then new employment laws. Royal Mail obtained an injuction and then in the court case won an order over the union which included a fine of 10 thousand pounds and if they breached the law again a threat of huge fine. The then reps of North West London Andy Curran RIP , Norman Candy, the then outdoor assistant secretary Billy Hayes and the then General Secretary Alan Johnson were all in the dock at the high court.

The second time was under the employee agenda dispute where Royal Mail threatened to withdraw check off again and the then Tory Government also threatened to remove the letter monopoly.

Now we did not back down on those occasions against that threat in fact we had a second ballot due to a legal challenge and got another big yes vote and took further strike action and defeat Royal Mail`s plans for team working.

Now check off is something which does maxmise members as asking a member to go and set up a direct debit is not as reliable as asking them to fill in a union form and having their union subs deducted from scouce. Now I know this with some authority Royal Mail did not threaten check off last year during either the local disputes or the two days of the national dispute. So its a non issue , do you really think that with Roger Poole and Peter Harwood from Acas that Royal Mail would have been foolish enough to threaten on one hand the system which allows for union deductions straight from wages and then state they want a new relationship with the union.

Now tell me factual evidence where the union has sold out. It has not happened , there will always be debates over policy including the supplement but at the end of the day the membership decides on whether a national agreement is acceptable or not. The reality I see is that on this site we have a lot of individuals who like and are entilted to give their personal opinion but there are another 100 odd thousand members who have never posted on this site and who may share a totally different opinion.

Unlike alot of people on here who remain anonymous and cant be traced and can be telling complete lies, I am known to many on here and by those senior managers who also come on this site. Thats why I dont lie or spin the truth , I am in no ones pocket and am not afaid to stand up for the rights of my members if I believe Royal Mail are in the wrong and breaking the agreement. Its a shame some of you dont moan at Royal Mail as much as you moan at me or lovejoy on this site perhaps if you did your office would not be in such a state.

[dvbuk55]

Well that's a long drawn out explanation which didn't actually spell out what the new financial arrangements are and how much the debt is and if it has been wiped, still that would be too much to expect - honesty and openness that is.

Like all political creatures statements are short on facts and long on boasts.

[fishtank]

Now I know this with some authority Royal Mail did not threaten check off last year during either the local disputes or the two days of the national dispute. So its a non issue ,

On the relationship with the union it is quite clear they want to reduce the unions role in the work place. In their words they see a new relationship with our people which basically is that change will be introduced without the union being invovled through teamworking. Plus the attack on facilities is something which will harm the union immensly as the legal minimum is discpline interviews and redundancies etc. It is not organinsing the members , holding meetings and fighting against their plans. Plus it also means that check off the method members pay their union subs will also be threatened by Royal Mail.

Thats why I dont lie or spin the truth

[dvbuk55]

Now I know this with some authority Royal Mail did not threaten check off last year during either the local disputes or the two days of the national dispute. So its a non issue ,

On the relationship with the union it is quite clear they want to reduce the unions role in the work place. In their words they see a new relationship with our people which basically is that change will be introduced without the union being invovled through teamworking. Plus the attack on facilities is something which will harm the union immensly as the legal minimum is discpline interviews and redundancies etc. It is not organinsing the members , holding meetings and fighting against their plans. Plus it also means that check off the method members pay their union subs will also be threatened by Royal Mail.

Thats why I dont lie or spin the truth

I'll join you for that brew if you don't mind - what's that expression ft, there are lies, damned lies and ..................

[Night Tonic]

Well that's a long drawn out explanation which didn't actually spell out what the new financial arrangements are and how much the debt is and if it has been wiped, still that would be too much to expect - honesty and openness that is.

Like all political creatures statements are short on facts and long on boasts.

Yawn. You forget Fishtank that this agreement also changed the way the CWU and RML communicate and that the practice now is to make JOINT statements, mostly to eradicate the damaging tittle tattle in forums and elsewhere. Trying to extract information and being insulting delivers a big fat zero.

[fishtank]

Well that's a long drawn out explanation which didn't actually spell out what the new financial arrangements are and how much the debt is and if it has been wiped, still that would be too much to expect - honesty and openness that is.

Like all political creatures statements are short on facts and long on boasts.

Yawn. You forget Fishtank that this agreement also changed the way the CWU and RML communicate and that the practice now is to make JOINT statements, mostly to eradicate the damaging tittle tattle in forums and elsewhere. Trying to extract information and being insulting delivers a big fat zero.

Yawn.That's not my quote NT.

[axeman]

now now' Night Tonic had a hard night last night the machines were flat out so his mind is a tad fried

[dvbuk55]

Well that's a long drawn out explanation which didn't actually spell out what the new financial arrangements are and how much the debt is and if it has been wiped, still that would be too much to expect - honesty and openness that is.

Like all political creatures statements are short on facts and long on boasts.

Yawn. You forget Fishtank that this agreement also changed the way the CWU and RML communicate and that the practice now is to make JOINT statements, mostly to eradicate the damaging tittle tattle in forums and elsewhere. Trying to extract information and being insulting delivers a big fat zero.

Yawn.That's not my quote NT.

It was me NT - as for damaging tittle tattle - we leave that up to the likes of the union disseminators - mind you as for getting a response from the title heading it doesn't take long does it before the "statement" appears.

[DirtyHarry]

No the union is not in the pockets of management at all.

Nah, course it 'aint. We wouldn't have ended up with even more D2D junk mail to deliver, and new delivery spans that could be up to 5hrs long, and have our Saturdays completely ruined, if the union was just another tier of RM management, would we?

Win/win for Royal Mail management, lose/lose for Royal Mail workers. Nice one, CWU.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Now tell me factual evidence where the union has sold out. It has not happened , there will always be debates over policy including the supplement but at the end of the day the membership decides on whether a national agreement is acceptable or not. The reality I see is that on this site we have a lot of individuals who like and are entilted to give their personal opinion but there are another 100 odd thousand members who have never posted on this site and who may share a totally different opinion.

The 2010 etc. Agreement was negotiated in secret without any consultation with the members and did not really tackle the main reason that members went on strike, ie. bullying management tactics. The full force of the union's spin machine was turned on its own members to try to sell them the agreement. The union should not have behaved in this way. It is meant to set an example. If the proposal was reasonable, why was so much effort made to get the support from the "100 odd thousand members who have never posted on this site"? Surely, it would have stood on its own.

Where were all the pro-agreement activists posting? If they were convinced of their position, why did they not outnumber the anti-agreement posters on this site? Why could none of the few pro-agreement posters defend their position with a reasoned argument?

The 'no' campaign would have been more successful if it had been organised, had the resources of the 'yes' campaign and recommended members not to vote if they were unsure, rather than to vote against the proposal. However, members should not be forced to use political 'tricks'. They should be properly consulted and allowed to debate the issues in an open way before an agreement is reached. The ends never justify the means.

[Martin Walsh]

Dirty Harry about sums you up when you refer to something which is now paying you 20 .60 per week as junk mail. The fact is that mail is going to help protect hours in a delivery unit. Would the union have been repsonsible to say with declining mail volumes that we did not want door to door into workload ? For god sake how many people on here have been complianing about increasing part times and the reduction of full time jobs , and how many on here have been complaining about absorbtion. We need extra work its a no brainer.

Now lets have a look at longer delivery spans , well if indoor work is reducing due to automation and it is , IPS has reduced and under walk sequencing so will the total time for prep then how do you maintain jobs if you dont have a longer span ? The union has now got door to door into workload to assist the decline in prep but the reality is that a longer span is an option. But there are a number of protections , one is when do you recieve your second batch system from your MPU , the second is that you cannot have a longer span unless you have a delivery methods revison and then each walk will be risk assessed including the CDV loops. In addtion there are on -going reports into fratigue and stress on delivery which will also be factored in. So tell me what offices have now got 5 hour walks apart from SPDOs who have had them for years and years without any of you moaning about them.

Now later Saturdays , so what was the union meant to do ? Get everyone to go out on strike to get mantain an early Saturday even thou some already work later on Saturdays. This would have meant in order for the union to achieve this that Royal Mail would have had to stop working sequencing machines entirely on a Friday into Saturday. It would have impacted on Mail Centres as well. Plus delivery offices would have had to have a different staffing levels on a Saturday to what they had on Monday - Friday when they had walk sequencing as they would have had to do all the IPS and all the prep. Now I have been on strike for lots of things in the past some important and some which were in sceme of things not but how would we have looked in the eyes of the public if we had stated on one hand we wanted an agreement on automation but you cant run your machines on a Friday night or Saturday morning ?