Have you all given up!

[spilie]

aw no another one pops up, 3 posts and shouting hooray for the deal

[TrueBlueTerrier]

aw no another one pops up, 3 posts and shouting hooray for the deal

Please remember everyone is welcome on this site. Customers, CWU Officers, Royal Mail Managers, all Royal Mail employees, the General Public, the press,and even MPs

[fishtank]

Monies like PHG allowances has gone to a very small amount of people, maybe 1-2 in each DO, if they still work for us, would hardly make any difference to over 100,000 other staff

Delivery spans, are not a major issue to me, if mail is arriving in offices late and all walks are planned to 14:30-15:00 last letter, and your last mail arrives later, and u go out say 10:30-11:00, then the span will and cant change that much, based on the planned last letter
Saturdays can be worked around, at least 1 in 4 off, why not more, it depends on the Rep and the strength of the office and what each office wants

That's a wide difference in span there.
I love the way these same words just trip of the tongue,it's as if you are reading from a page.
"u go out say 10:30-11:00" well let's say 10.30 but wait a minute is this based on an 8hr day cos if you want "1 in 4 off,why not more" you won't be working an 8 hr day so let's start again shall we?
So if your on a 4 day week "u go out say 10:30-11:00" no...that doesn't work cos that's 5 hrs indoor work and that's not gonna fly with WSM....damm.
Ok you go out say 9.30-10.00 and it's a 3 o'clock last letter sorted,fecked but sorted.

[DirtyHarry]

it depends on the Rep and the strength of the office and what each office wants

As it always does, and why for so many postal workers the job has got worse, and is set to get worse even more.
These "deals" with RM, where the onus is always placed on individual local reps, individual offices, only reinforces the concept as seen by so many postal workers, that this unique individuality, not so common in other unionised workplaces, and so beloved by the leadership of the CWU, is ultimately, and will no doubt prove fatally, divisive.

[dvbuk55]

Walk sequencing machines complete by 2013, they will arive in units over the next few months, ours will be here within 2-3 months, they are coming, and they work, the union had to act now, not when they start coming, when its to late

You say they are coming, true, you say that they work - that has yet to be proved on a large scale and the amount of saving too has yet to be proved and the estimates seem to vary widely.

Now to another point of the allowances that have been allowed to continue, driving, PHG and DSA what if it is a small amount of money - it is monies that will be lost using the same criteria applied to ESA 1 & 2.

If the D2D does not take off and there seems to be some doubt or at least some would like to suggest that is the case - what price then saving full time jobs. There is much about this agreement that is a leap of faith and undue emphasis placed on trust, not something that has been too evident in the recent past nor in previous agreements. Should we find RM less than honest in its dealings - what then - ACAS? Someone had tried to suggest Roger Poole had been instrumental in the NI Agreement - it appears he advised on the Marching Bands in 2005!

[MinisterofCucumber]

Dvbuk55 wrote:

"Someone had tried to suggest Roger Poole had been instrumental in the NI Agreement - it appears he advised on the Marching Bands".

However, "the choice of the tunes was the responsibility of the parties not Acas."

[pendley]

whatever the outcome if the deal goes through,it still requires a major u turn to deliver the contents in to the work place.health and safety is to become the catalyst for most of the deals implementation,the same health and safety that is largely ignored at present. as for the union protecting jobs,what about the 60,000 allready gone? that must have saved a few million each week. yet they still offer us a pay cut. in my letter from mark higson he said "nobody is going to write us a blank cheque". he might have added adam crozier had the last one. im of to specsavers for my rose coloured glasses,i must be missing something.

[BELIAL]

its about facing facts, the D2D monies would go or be reduced to 1 contract at best, when the walk sequencing machines will decimate indoor work, the union needs to find other work to protect jobs, hence D2D into workload, its a no brainer or lets carry on and ignore reality, is an agreement to protect jobs, for anyone voting NO, if a NO vote is the result, what do people honestly think will change, will everything just go away, will walk sequencing machines be sent back and not come in, people need to start living in the real world, the job will change, we might not like it, but it does not mean, it wont happen.

You must be getting different WSM's to us then ,cos ours kick out more IPS than the walksorted ones did Come back in 3 months with your new take on the situation Theory is fine ,but reality tends to be a bit different

[Martin Walsh]

its about facing facts, the D2D monies would go or be reduced to 1 contract at best, when the walk sequencing machines will decimate indoor work, the union needs to find other work to protect jobs, hence D2D into workload, its a no brainer or lets carry on and ignore reality, is an agreement to protect jobs, for anyone voting NO, if a NO vote is the result, what do people honestly think will change, will everything just go away, will walk sequencing machines be sent back and not come in, people need to start living in the real world, the job will change, we might not like it, but it does not mean, it wont happen.

As the courier has pointed out the last of the walk sequencing machines will be in by 2013....long way off.

Any vote now should reflect what the members want now. So if you haven't got you walk sequencing machines, how does the whole set-up of this agreement work.
In 2-3 years time lets us have a vote on changes then......not now!

My job HAS changed over the past 5 years and I've had very little say in that on a DO level!

Wal sequencing is here and now and was doubled last month and wil again increase this month. I have a timetable which is clear that most get deployed this year , with a smaller number next year. A lot of places will be recieving their walk sequencing revisons very soon once this agreement is endorsed.

I really dont think many on here understand the impact of the new workplan and how the revison by WSM will have on their offices. Remember just becuase you have WSMs now it will not be the same once the workplan changes as no delivery revisons have taken place with regards to WSM as yet.

Once you see the impact you will be thankful that we have an agreement in place which gives protection to full time jobs and benefits.

[drb]

Yes, thats exactly what I'm saying. My manager agrees with me too.

Is this the same manager that imposed change last year?,(and would probably do it again)

Is this the same manager who sent out letters to members taking them off pay if they couldn't absorb?

Is this the same manager who went to briefings last year trying to get rid of the union?

Now all of a sudden he says something and he is the leading light of truth and honesty!!!!

[dvbuk55]

its about facing facts, the D2D monies would go or be reduced to 1 contract at best, when the walk sequencing machines will decimate indoor work, the union needs to find other work to protect jobs, hence D2D into workload, its a no brainer or lets carry on and ignore reality, is an agreement to protect jobs, for anyone voting NO, if a NO vote is the result, what do people honestly think will change, will everything just go away, will walk sequencing machines be sent back and not come in, people need to start living in the real world, the job will change, we might not like it, but it does not mean, it wont happen.

As the courier has pointed out the last of the walk sequencing machines will be in by 2013....long way off.

Any vote now should reflect what the members want now. So if you haven't got you walk sequencing machines, how does the whole set-up of this agreement work.
In 2-3 years time lets us have a vote on changes then......not now!

My job HAS changed over the past 5 years and I've had very little say in that on a DO level!

Wal sequencing is here and now and was doubled last month and wil again increase this month. I have a timetable which is clear that most get deployed this year , with a smaller number next year. A lot of places will be recieving their walk sequencing revisons very soon once this agreement is endorsed.

I really dont think many on here understand the impact of the new workplan and how the revison by WSM will have on their offices. Remember just becuase you have WSMs now it will not be the same once the workplan changes as no delivery revisons have taken place with regards to WSM as yet.

Once you see the impact you will be thankful that we have an agreement in place which gives protection to full time jobs and benefits.

Actually dingo we haven't got an agreement in place yet and whether it will save full time jobs is open to debate and the benefits? - well they're hardly immediate are they if we are waiting to 2013 to see any advance on pay.

My manager stated today he has no idea how many machines we are getting, when they will be deployed or how many offices we will be serving.

[pendley]

speaking as one of the many who are to dimm to understand the implications of wsm i fully understand the implications of brainwashing.in most language extra work means extra reward in some form or other.even if the dispute has never been solely about a pay increase,the equation of more work and less pay,then negotiate for the rest add up to less than many people had in mind when returning a yes vote for industrial action.

[mclovin]

Yes, thats exactly what I'm saying. My manager agrees with me too.

Is this the same manager that imposed change last year?,(and would probably do it again)

Is this the same manager who sent out letters to members taking them off pay if they couldn't absorb?

Is this the same manager who went to briefings last year trying to get rid of the union?

Now all of a sudden he says something and he is the leading light of truth and honesty!!!!

We have never had change enforced, always through locally agreed practices.

Never had anyone in my office taken off pay for not absorbing.

Cant answer point 3.

The manager we have now has only been with us a couple of months and he is INSISTING we get the Union in when this yes vote goes through, to help sort out duties etc. He also is opposed to the changes big style. He doesnt want to have to police impossible targets. He's been very vocal against this change and has provided myself with a few bits of rather tasty memo's from the top, which I should have no access to at all. And from what I have seen this votes only going one way.

I pray Im wrong.

[drb]

I hope you are right.However the changes he could of had to enforce would of been alot lot worse. The tasty memos you are talking about,I have seen.Especially the ones from September 2009.

[arsenalbob]

I haven't given up and have voted no. If this deal had an ounce of good in it they wouldn't need to send us a dvd with the ballot paper to try and sell it. It's like giving your wife flowers ater you've cheated on her