Myths about the agreement

[mclovin]

1. If its that good a deal, why does it need to be sold to us?

2. If its that good a deal, dissect each operation, ie Mail Centre staff, Delivery staff, Distribution staff etc, and let each vote on their own part of the deal.

This Union is weak and will only get weaker. It is actually less than useless.

[andy2007]

Come on guys. Less of the insults, please.

[andy2007]

1. If its that good a deal, why does it need to be sold to us?
You're right there!

2. If its that good a deal, dissect each operation, ie Mail Centre staff, Delivery staff, Distribution staff etc, and let each vote on their own part of the deal.
No. that's a seriously bad idea! If we start having separate deals for each section, it'll weaken our position. And we're already being weakened by the ones who're leaving the Union.

This Union is weak and will only get weaker. It is actually less than useless.

I'd hardly call it less than useless. Or useless for that matter. HQ has lost it's way, but the local, and area Reps, are generally very good. There are some areas where this isn't true. But in many it is. It's still not too late to change from within!

[Broxi51]

It is a sh*te deal, Dingo.

It will be mostly part timers who will lose out over the D2D payments. These are the ones who should be benefitting the most from any agreement as they are at the lower end of the wage scale. It was said on a previous thread that if the D2D payments were equalised regardless of contract lengths, that part timers would actually be better off by approx £5 per week. That is fine by me! I am losing an hour out of my 40 hours so why shouldn't those who don't lose an hour receive a pay rise of £5.

The strikes before Xmas had nothing to do with D2D's, had nothing to do with a pay rise and had nothing to do with lengthening delivery spans. It was about bullying and intimidation by managers who interpreted the P&M 2007 agreement the way they saw fit because some of the phases were very vague and open to misinterpretation. Now we have the chance to say yes to another agreement that seems to be very vague yet again. Although the CWU will now have a greater say at national level it will still be the same story at local level where managers will once again misinterpret the agreement and disregard any input from the local rep. The rep will put in a disagreement and RM will force it through by EA.

The Union have said that it is time to trust. I do not disagree with that statement as it is the only way that RM can compete is if the workforce and management are fighting together. The union said that RM dont want to confront, fight and challenge the workforce over every little thing anymore and that they want to build the trust as well. This is sounding good. Both parties agree that trust is paramount so why did RM refuse to accept ACAS to overlook things for 3 years and why did the CWU force that issue so that ACAS would? Not very trusting by either party there.
The trust was so great that the CWU felt it necessary to go to the media reporting a great pay rise so that we couldn't say no without customers thinking that we were workshy and greedy.

I think that it will be a yes vote and I also think that it will be time to take my leave of a union who shafted the part timers. I wont hide behind my computer and will fight them tooth and nail on the work floor where RM try to steam roll over the staff but I cannot stomach the smell of the CWU top table. You said that we should fight within to change the CWU but alas it is broken now and once the yes vote is in, it will be just a toothless dragon who is ready to roll over for their masters at No.10 and allow the underpaid RM workers to be shafted. No thanks, Dingo, it is too late to save the CWU after the agreement gets voted in. There will be no more trust within the cwu from the members after this agreement.

[banner18]

It is a sh*te deal, Dingo.

It will be mostly part timers who will lose out over the D2D payments. These are the ones who should be benefitting the most from any agreement as they are at the lower end of the wage scale. It was said on a previous thread that if the D2D payments were equalised regardless of contract lengths, that part timers would actually be better off by approx £5 per week. That is fine by me! I am losing an hour out of my 40 hours so why shouldn't those who don't lose an hour receive a pay rise of £5.

The problem with the pro rata part time issue is that if part timers are paid the same as a full timers delivery supplement , they will technically end up on a different pay scale. Part timers would earn more per hour than full timers.
A one hour contract guy would recieve £18.55 even if they did just one hour that week. (btw I hate one hour contracts and they should be made illegal but these workers shouldn't be made better off at the expense of the rest of the workforce)
It is the union who have concieved of this, not RM. It makes no difference to RM how the union divide the money up between everyone. The union is desperate for us all to do the job right and stick together to stop our jobs being carved up. How could they help to achieve that by having people doing the same job on differing pay scales?

[pickaname]

The fact I went on strike, backed the union and lost money to secure a substantial paycut is abhorent.

THE BIGGEST MYTH IS THAT THERE WILL BE A BRIGHTER FUTURE FOR ALL IF YOU VOTE YES.

Not in my household when ive got to manage a £30 pw paycut and explain to the mrs why Im not going to be around as much.

f**k the CWU. Youre as good as a bunch of crooks that havent got a clue about the real world.

[dvbuk55]

Dingo you can say what you want but the members will have the last say plan B or no plan B.

Quite so, but isn't he saying that posters on here/voters should be aware of a few facts rather than just being the usual mob mentality and voting "'cos everyone else voted that way"?
As RMC proved in '07, vehemently-held views from some on here doesn't always mean that's the way the rank-and-file think.

Thats the more incisive post I have seen in a long time Tman.

I've got some other bits to contribute later but off for a few bank holiday ales 1st

Now you are scraping the bottom of the barrel lovejoy making a pact with tman - and did you know that I don't drink alcohol, that way my vision is never clouded in an alcoholic haze. If your only going to be posting after a "few ales" don't bother, things always look rosier after a pint or two so I believe.

[wakkono]

If our new delivery span could be as much as a 7 hour walk do you think royal mail will actually provide us with a coat that can and will keep us dry?

[pickaname]

If our new delivery span could be as much as a 7 hour walk do you think royal mail will actually provide us with a coat that can and will keep us dry?

What about a miners hat so we can deliver in the dark?

[Guevarista]

Interesting that....


'TNT has captured the dominant share of the door to door market , along with newspapers and mail houses. Currently Royal Mail share is 3 billion items out of 14 billion items of the door to door market. Those companies will fight tooth and nail to defend their share of the market including under cutting Royal Mail.

Royal Mail are more costly and more restrictive then TNT in the market.'

Over the past three weeks 5 out of 9 of my D2Ds have been sub-contracted in from... TNT! One more set was subbed in from another mailing house. Only 3 came directly through RM. Once again, as with DSA, our rivals are profiting at the expense of ordinary postmen and women. Let them find some other monkey to deliver their junk!

[janitor]

Isn't it strange that TNT can win these contracts, pay us to deliver them and still make a profit, there must be some pretty hefty over heads, outside delivery, that make these contracts un-winable for RM.

[Tman]

Now you are scraping the bottom of the barrel lovejoy making a pact with tman -

If there's any barrel bottom scraping going on, it's probably from someone who likes to think he presents lucid arguments and concise points but has to resort to comments like the above. Foot? Shot? No argument?
After all, would I imply you've made a pact with (certain err... challenged individuals) because they happen to agree with your general view?

[fishtank]

dingo wrote
3. I think a lot of posters will have no understanding of the coming traffic split with walk sequencing as it will remove approximately 40% of your indoor workload for at least 2 , 3 or 4 hours from your normal workplace. Door to door will protect your job.

Point 3 is completely contradicted by point 2

dingo wrote
2. The other myth is that suddenly everyone will get loads more door to door. Look in 1998 Royal Mail share of the door to door market was 31% now in 2010 it is 22%.
TNT has captured the dominant share of the door to door market , along with newspapers and mail houses. Currently Royal Mail share is 3 billion items out of 14 billion items of the door to door market. Those companies will fight tooth and nail to defend their share of the market including under cutting Royal Mail.
Royal Mail are more costly and more restrictive then TNT in the market.
Plus Royal Mail have asked to meet the union in the next week or so as they want to go in the mailing house part of the market which is to capture more door to door in the market place they may have to put them in one envelope as obviously more door to door in the workplace means more hours saved and putting more costs in the workplace.

You cannot protect jobs with a product that is dying on it's arse just as you cannot argue both sides of an arguement.

Either,
1. Royal mail fails to grow the D2D side of the business and we can't use it to protect jobs or........
2. D2D goes into a prepacked envelope and the only jobs you are protecting are the ones who are packing it or....
3. Everyone WILL get more D2D.

Which is it because it can only be one of them?

[dvbuk55]

Now you are scraping the bottom of the barrel lovejoy making a pact with tman -

If there's any barrel bottom scraping going on, it's probably from someone who likes to think he presents lucid arguments and concise points but has to resort to comments like the above. Foot? Shot? No argument?
After all, would I imply you've made a pact with (certain err... challenged individuals) because they happen to agree with your general view?

Please don't interrupt big boys conversations tman - you don't have anything to do with deliveries, know nothing about them and stand only to gain from this agreement. Do you see me commenting on anything but deliveries - NO - because I don't profess to know anything about them - just observe the same courtesy.

[steven100]

The deal is rubbish, "Dingo" - you know the deal is rubbish so stop giving up crap. Our pension is still not been resolved, everyone will be part-time within 10 years to reduce RM payments to their pensions.
I'll address the D2Ds "How many people deliver TNT d2ds"???
Some people in our office are losing £160. This is nothing more than the demise of the union, either lots of staff will leave or RM have succeeded in breaking up the union. So this deal is nothing more than cwu losing more power when negotiating a new deal in 3 years time. I'm pretty sure everything then will just be implemented.
75% Full-time, 25% part-time. Soon to be 75% part-time, 25% full-time.

As for mail centres voting the deal they better starting reading the small print i.e can they be shifted to delivery office if short staffed. If they they refuse to go to another job within RM will they get offered VR in return for refusal, probably no.

Death of our union.