gb93 wrote:Just a coincidence then that after you take out ESA your are left with around £8.
Did the CWU really fight hard for the delivery supplement .
Did RM really say they were going to cease D2D payments alltogher.
Or did the CWU just accept the £8 that they would not in the 2007 agreement.
Maybe wasnt such tough negoatations after all.
Could be wrong, unlike others.
Well firstly its not £8 because some people get only £8 shift allowance and some none and some get no money for d2ds so the value you state is a personal one for you........ the CWU negotiate for everyone.
If you honestly think they just sat there and said 'oh ok then that will do' then you are so far from the truth its unreal. Roger Poole was quoted as saying these are the toughest negotiations he had ever been involved in and he was part of the NI peace process!!!
And yes RM did say they were going to cease the payments and that people would ABSORB (not get the work measured as has been negotiated) the work.
lovejoy wrote:
And yes RM did say they were going to cease the payments and that people would ABSORB (not get the work measured as has been negotiated) the work.
Of course they would Lovejoy but that doesn't make it true now does it?
lovejoy wrote:
And yes RM did say they were going to cease the payments and that people would ABSORB (not get the work measured as has been negotiated) the work.
Of course they would Lovejoy but that doesn't make it true now does it?
I honestly can't believe that in an 80 page document on the future of our jobs and the industry that a decision to protect jobs by making d2d workload and getting the monies currently being paid out secured can be criticised.
Yes short term some will lose money...... but its not from their basic it is from what is in simple terms AN OVERTIME PAYMENT.
People have to see beyond one section the agreement and I think the comms this week will focus on that!
Dogs of War wrote:DINGO, BIG DAZ why did the CWU not put the 20.60 into my 40 hours instead of paying separate? What i am really saying if they put the 20.60 into my 40 hours it means in years to come they can not take that away like they are doing with the ESA now. In my opinion this 20.60 is a short term thing and will be taken off us in 3 years am I right?
Trying to get my head round the fact Why the Protected ESA has been lumped in with D2D??
Could it be that if the ESA was consolidated into basic pay (as it is pensionable, for those that recieve it)
it would mean that D2D would be a stand alone Supplement of £8odd
Try and sell that to the Members eh!
That's exactly what they are trying to do - it's all smoke and mirrors glenno - but really the money aspect is only a very small part of the duplicity of this agreement.
See thats comical because in a post a few minutes ago you accused the NE of lying to influence the vote.
The supplement does not include the shift allowance so make it look more attractive for D2D. They 20.60 is shift allowance + monies currently being paid on D2D. The CWU have managed to make RM pay twice for the same thing.
Whilst the D2D money has been captured it has now been put into a supplement and is NOT A PAYMENT FOR DOING D2D..... IT IS A DELIVERY WORKER SUPPLEMENT.
The payment for d2d is exactly the same as any other mail item now........ time and basic pay
I did accuse them of lying lovejoy and I stand by that.
The supplement will be in basic pay - really where does it say that?
The FT/PT split will be 75/25 and that will enable a 15% increase on PT hours - it doesn't say that in the agreement, it clearly states it will be around 75/25 NATIONALLY and in no shape or form does it say there will be an increase in PT hours - in fact the current split is 79/21 so there will in fact be fewer full timers and more part timers under this agreement.
For someone who professes to dislike this deal you certainly do a good job of defending it - but why? If you dislike it say so and vote NO.
Last edited by dvbuk55 on 02 Apr 2010, 19:18, edited 1 time in total.
Dogs of War wrote:DINGO, BIG DAZ why did the CWU not put the 20.60 into my 40 hours instead of paying separate? What i am really saying if they put the 20.60 into my 40 hours it means in years to come they can not take that away like they are doing with the ESA now. In my opinion this 20.60 is a short term thing and will be taken off us in 3 years am I right?
Trying to get my head round the fact Why the Protected ESA has been lumped in with D2D??
Could it be that if the ESA was consolidated into basic pay (as it is pensionable, for those that recieve it)
it would mean that D2D would be a stand alone Supplement of £8odd
Try and sell that to the Members eh!
That's exactly what they are trying to do - it's all smoke and mirrors glenno - but really the money aspect is only a very small part of the duplicity of this agreement.
See thats comical because in a post a few minutes ago you accused the NE of lying to influence the vote.
The supplement does not include the shift allowance so make it look more attractive for D2D. They 20.60 is shift allowance + monies currently being paid on D2D. The CWU have managed to make RM pay twice for the same thing.
Whilst the D2D money has been captured it has now been put into a supplement and is NOT A PAYMENT FOR DOING D2D..... IT IS A DELIVERY WORKER SUPPLEMENT.
The payment for d2d is exactly the same as any other mail item now........ time and basic pay
I did accuse them of lying lovejoy and I stand by that.
The supplement will be in basic pay - really where does it say that?
The FT/PT split will be 75/25 and that will enable a 15% increase on PT hours - it doesn't say that in the agreement, it clearly states it will be around 75/25 NATIONALLY and in no shape or form does it say there will be an increase in PT hours - in fact the current split is 79/21 so there will in fact be fewer full timers and more part timers under this agreement.
My point was that you were being economical with the truth yourself......... something you ignored......I wonder why!?
The supplement does not include the shift allowance so make it look more attractive for D2D. They 20.60 is shift allowance + monies currently being paid on D2D. The CWU have managed to make RM pay twice for the same thing.
Whilst the D2D money has been captured it has now been put into a supplement and is NOT A PAYMENT FOR DOING D2D..... IT IS A DELIVERY WORKER SUPPLEMENT.
The payment for d2d is exactly the same as any other mail item now........ time and basic pay
So correct me if i am wrong then Lovejoy.... the supplement of £20.60 does NOT include ESA??
And is the D2D seen as another Royal Mail Product going forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gb93 wrote:Just a coincidence then that after you take out ESA your are left with around £8.
Did the CWU really fight hard for the delivery supplement .
Did RM really say they were going to cease D2D payments alltogher.
Or did the CWU just accept the £8 that they would not in the 2007 agreement.
Maybe wasnt such tough negoatations after all.
Could be wrong, unlike others.
Well firstly its not £8 because some people get only £8 shift allowance and some none and some get no money for d2ds so the value you state is a personal one for you........ the CWU negotiate for everyone.
If you honestly think they just sat there and said 'oh ok then that will do' then you are so far from the truth its unreal. Roger Poole was quoted as saying these are the toughest negotiations he had ever been involved in and he was part of the NI peace process!!!
And yes RM did say they were going to cease the payments and that people would ABSORB (not get the work measured as has been negotiated) the work.
The CWU negotiate for everyone - now that must make those who are losing money every week feel much better now - as for Roger Poole and Northern Ireland...............................
The supplement does not include the shift allowance so make it look more attractive for D2D. They 20.60 is shift allowance + monies currently being paid on D2D. The CWU have managed to make RM pay twice for the same thing.
Whilst the D2D money has been captured it has now been put into a supplement and is NOT A PAYMENT FOR DOING D2D..... IT IS A DELIVERY WORKER SUPPLEMENT.
The payment for d2d is exactly the same as any other mail item now........ time and basic pay
So correct me if i am wrong then Lovejoy.... the supplement of £20.60 does NOT include ESA??
And is the D2D seen as another Royal Mail Product going forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry that was a type Glenno... yes it includes the ESA , I was pointing out that not everyone gets it and some gets different levels so the difference between ESA and 20.60 is not £8 for everyone.
And yes d2d is now mail. the only difference is members will have protection of when it comes in, time to deliver etc. If you can't complete for some reason due to d2ds then normal practice for heavy days will be used.... cutting off, streamlining etc
The supplement does not include the shift allowance so make it look more attractive for D2D. They 20.60 is shift allowance + monies currently being paid on D2D. The CWU have managed to make RM pay twice for the same thing.
Whilst the D2D money has been captured it has now been put into a supplement and is NOT A PAYMENT FOR DOING D2D..... IT IS A DELIVERY WORKER SUPPLEMENT.
The payment for d2d is exactly the same as any other mail item now........ time and basic pay
So correct me if i am wrong then Lovejoy.... the supplement of £20.60 does NOT include ESA??
And is the D2D seen as another Royal Mail Product going forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry that was a type Glenno... yes it includes the ESA , I was pointing out that not everyone gets it and some gets different levels so the difference between ESA and 20.60 is not £8 for everyone.
Point taken , still Pondering
And yes d2d is now mail. the only difference is members will have protection of when it comes in, time to deliver etc. If you can't complete for some reason due to d2ds then normal practice for heavy days will be used.... cutting off, streamlining etc
lovejoy wrote:
And yes d2d is now mail. the only difference is members will have protection of when it comes in, time to deliver etc. If you can't complete for some reason due to d2ds then normal practice for heavy days will be used.... cutting off, streamlining etc
Well cutting off may prove difficult Lovejoy since you will no longer have the protection of a nationally agreed MAXIMUM delivery span so unless you are cutting off because you have no more hours left in your working day you may have some explaining to do.
But there were winners and losers in the payment per item system.
This is something conveniently overlooked by those that were in the winning position.
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
Just wondering what would happen if Royal Mail scrapped all driving allowance and replaced it with some supplement,lets say £3.50,surely you're driving in worktime anyway and going by the same principle as loss of d2d this should go too!
Anybody who drives think that would be fair?................Anybody?
