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Fairness

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
k979aaa
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Re: Fairness

Post by k979aaa »

whitemoor66 wrote:
andy2007 wrote:No, I don't think they get any sympathy at all, once they've crossed the lines. At least not in my experience. But they DO get more protection.

The problem as I see it, is twofold. Before the Strike. Anyone who says that they're considering crossing the lines, is usually subjected to considerable intimidation. Instead of people calmly explaining that they're wrong to even consider doing so.

There are a lot of people, who're scared of the short term financial difficulties that they will face if they Strike. But what we should be explaining to them, is that if they DON'T Strike, they'll face far worse, long term financial problems, deterioration of their working conditions, and less job security. Looking at the situation from the very short sighted perspective, of worrying about paying next week/months bills, is incredibly counterproductive. And it's exactly the attitude that Managers love, as it deters people for voting for Strikes, and sometimes convinces people to cross the lines.

After the Strike. If someone has crossed the Picket Lines, they're usually Bullied. Which alienates them, and makes them more likley to cross the lines in the future, just to spite those who Bullied them. And could potentially result in suspensions, or even sackings for B&H! :hmmmm

Obviously there are a minority of people, who just don't care, and will cross the lines, no matter what we do. But is it REALLY worth missing the opportunity to convince the short sighted, and often frightened, Strike Breakers. That they were wrong to do so, and should support us in the future?
I've seen people start off Strike Breaking, and later, join us on the Picket Lines. It's not just a pipe dream. It's a FACT! :hmmmm
Short term loss should not be a consideration within the bigger picture (in my opinion.) I've been there and dealt with it. If you lose money through industrial action, you have to prioritise who you have to pay. It will help if you are up front with the people you owe money to, rather than not opening letters or picking up the phone. Obviously rent/mortgage has to be a priority. Mortgage Companys will be more helpful than landords, especially private ones. Utilities will accept revised budgets as will council tax people. They will all piss and moan but if you offer a token payment and work out and agree a revised budget, they will accept in in the end. As for credit agreements, they can accept a reduced payment for one month. If you credit is poor anyway, it won't change anything. If your wage doesn't cover your outgoings anyway, you are in the wrong job.

Yes everybody can afford to loose a few days pay for Industrial Action.

I was taking industrial action for 3 weeks against BT in early 1987 with the P.O.E.U. and got married in May that year. You will and can find a way.

I hope you find my post helpful and I promise you I don't wan't it to sound patronising, but look at the bigger picture.

If you are in the club, as far as I'm concerned, you have to obey the club rules.
I agree. :Applause :Applause :Applause
postghost
Posts: 433
Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 21:19

Re: Fairness

Post by postghost »

My opinion is that people who dont do the job properly are worse than those that cross the picket line. They have contributed to this mess, yet no one ignores them. Two faced hypocrisy at its finest!!

Am I missing something?
k979aaa
Posts: 12578
Joined: 03 Sep 2007, 19:14
Gender: Male
Location: THE NORTH

Re: Fairness

Post by k979aaa »

postghost wrote:My opinion is that people who dont do the job properly are worse than those that cross the picket line. They have contributed to this mess, yet no one ignores them. Two faced hypocrisy at its finest!!

Am I missing something?
No you are right but blame can be attributed to royalmail for they hoodwinked most with job and Finnish too see how fast some can go!.
andy2007
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Who's worse?

Post by andy2007 »

In my opinion. The reason that Strike Breakers are treated more harshly than those who refuse to do the job properly. Is that Strikes are only effective, if most (preferably all) Staff at the site refuse to work. If too many people go in, then it's a meaningless gesture. Which is why it's so important to convince anyone who's seriously considering crossing the lines, that they should change their minds, and join in.

Those who cut corners, work for free, etc.. Still do a great deal of damage. But they aren't making people have trouble paying their bills, or in longer Strikes, trouble feeding their Families. Waste their time and effort. They're still doing damage. But it takes longer, and you can still earn your living, while you try to convince them that they're being short sighted, selfish, and damaging their Collegues terms and conditions.
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!
stokes11eg
EX ROYAL MAIL
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Re: Fairness

Post by stokes11eg »

:shock: Difficult one this--In our office, one or two folks strike break only because they are 'sooks' and have always crawled round the Management.On the face of it, they seem to be treated preferentially--but only for a short time. On balance,you usually find once folks are back,there is no real difference in treatment,usually much to the chargin of the 'line crosser'--
if anything, the Management,usaully start to ignore them, for fear of upsetting the apple cart, as they know how most folks feel, and eventually, after a year or two, these people move on to pastures new.
andy2007
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Re: Fairness

Post by andy2007 »

Have you tried reasoning with them?
Thankfully, the only person I've met personally who crosses the lines to curry favour, is a driver from another part of the Country (long story, he's moved onto other things now anyway :wave ). And there was no talking to him. But I believe that people like that are quite rare. Sometimes you can talk some sense into them, if you can bring yourself to spend the time with them.

As you've said yourself. The preferential treatment never lasts, but the errosion of our terms, conditions, and the service we provide, DOES last. Maybe they simply don't understand that. Or they think that somehow it'll be different next time, and they'll get a promotion, or something.
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!
stokes11eg
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 3077
Joined: 20 Nov 2008, 12:51
Gender: Female

Re: Fairness

Post by stokes11eg »

:Very Happy you've hit the nail on the head with the talk of hoped for promotion. I can understand and accept folks crossing
for financial reasons, although not agreeing with them. but those who break rank for other reasons I find more difficult to deal with.But, at the end of the day, we all have to do what our conscience dictaes, and have to live with the consequences.
c
andy2007
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Re: Fairness

Post by andy2007 »

I can't believe that there are still people who're that guilable! Haven't they noticed, that the promotions haven't materealised? :d'oh!
Still, with any luck. Someone will be able to talk some sense into them.
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!
westlondonpostie
Posts: 559
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Re: Fairness

Post by westlondonpostie »

Sooner or later a Scab will need the help of the Union and the backing of they're colleagues, but because of they're strike breaking actions very few will get any help or support, management don't give a monkeys if they scabbed or not and I've never seen a scab getting preferential treatment,
As far as I'm concerned I will be civil with a scab if they talk to me, but I won't be friendly, socialise or trust them and I will never support them in the future, they made they're decision so they have to live with the consequences of choosing Management over they're colleagues.
postghost
Posts: 433
Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 21:19

Re: Fairness

Post by postghost »

I'll ask this again............

How many of you who have said they would refuse to talk to strike breakers, still converse and socialize with those that dont do the job properly??

Hypocrisy?? :hmmmm
postghost
Posts: 433
Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 21:19

Re: Fairness

Post by postghost »

SovietOnion73 wrote:
postghost wrote:I'll ask this again............

How many of you who have said they would refuse to talk to strike breakers, still converse and socialize with those that dont do the job properly??

Hypocrisy?? :hmmmm
Your very correct in what your saying post in a way its because of these people not doing the job properly that in some little way were in the mess we are in today but my personnell view is, walking across a picket line is a whole lot different to not doing the job properly but as ive said your 100% right in your comment above i suppose it will just have to be a matter of ones personnel opinion on this one.Every day i bang my head against a brick wall trying to convince people to do the job properly and i just get that vacant look from them i also explain to them what impact there aCTions are having on the job but to no avail they cant see the wood for the trees and when they do it will be to late ...
I just think that ignoring these people and boycotting them from the union would have better effect long term than striking.
westlondonpostie
Posts: 559
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Re: Fairness

Post by westlondonpostie »

postghost wrote:I'll ask this again............

How many of you who have said they would refuse to talk to strike breakers, still converse and socialize with those that dont do the job properly??

Hypocrisy?? :hmmmm

Well in my office everyone is now working properly hence the major f**k ups, but in the past many were coming in early and working they're breaks, I had tried explaining to them what they were actually doing and laid out the consequences for the future, some listened some didn't but all have seen the light with the imposed revision,

I would like to see some Official Union action starting with a ballot to get everyone to "Work Properly" if then, people still continued to go against the union instruction gained through a democratic ballot and put not only they're jobs but they're colleagues jobs at risk I would only then, treat them as strike breakers.
andy2007
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Re: Fairness

Post by andy2007 »

postghost wrote:I'll ask this again............

How many of you who have said they would refuse to talk to strike breakers, still converse and socialize with those that dont do the job properly??

Hypocrisy?? :hmmmm
I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again: Although it would be wrong of me, or anyone else, to try to make you speak to someone who's betrayed us so badly. In the long run, it's often worth the effort of talking to these people, in an attempt to convince them that they're in the wrong, and causing serious damage to our terms, conditions, and the service we provide. And although I haven't needed to do so for some time. I have practiced what I preach. So I'm no hypocrite.

Apart from a handful of Agency, that a Manager sneaked in, in the back of a RM van. And a few more, who trespassed on private land, to get in through the fence at the far side. The only Strike Breaker we had, to my knowledge in '07. Was a Driver from elsewhere in the Country. And he took delight, in making fun of the Drivers, who were about to end their Shift (which the CWU had told them to complete). As he was doing overtime. Thankfully, he's stopped coming to us. So presumably he's left, or gone into Management.

Probably just as well really. As his attitude, made him even less popular than Leighton or Crozier, in our Office!
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!