London calling

[Thorby Bislam]

Why is it being produced by the London Division and not CWU HQ? Have there been no changes in London already - because I would imagine every poster on here has experienced literally dozens of changes since 2007 in their respective offices. If it is union policy then why haven't they come out and said it is policy to each and every branch and if they have then why aren't the branches adhering to it - I can say categorically that changes have been proposed in our office and accepted by the union rep and I can also say that the membership in general haven't the faintest idea what the union policy is and they aren't prepared to take the risk of being sacked and abandoned.

This is so like our office. People have no idea what the union's supposed position is. Including the reps.

A couple of weeks ago, in WTL, a manager was proposing changes to our t&c. The rep was just sat there listening. I had to speak up and ask him about the union position. To give credit where it's due, he did ring area and find out. But should he have needed to ? Shouldn't area make sure the reps are given the information and support they need ?

Latest thing is, manager wants to change all our start/finish times from start of new financial year. Haven't seen our rep. Maybe he's on leave. Another local change seems like it's going through despite union's position.

[Martin Walsh]

This is a London document because we have carried a united policy across London to defend each other. Royal mail know that if they take execuitve action in one office we will ballot all 130 offices composing of 14000 members.

However this is not just a London issue and we know that the PEC agreed a further number of ballot requests today meaning we now have over 40 offices around the UK either having balloted or requesting ballots.

But we also know not only through posters through this site but details from Royal Mail that a significant number of offices have decided to give in and agree not only to savings but some have even been working with managment on geo route revisons which i find mindblowing.

Look if it pleases everyone I am happy to knock headquaters and believe its time they woke up and paid equal amount of time fighting the industrial issues as they are the politcal issues. But its time we also starting to question what the hell are Branch`s who know what Royal Mail `s agenda is and what area reps and local reps are doing to stop offices from introducing savings.

Now the other point is that it always make me laugh when someone shouts lets have a national ballot. I tell you why we are not at a point where we can be confident of a yes vote. Part of our evidence has to be is why are Branch`s balloting just one office and not their whole branch. In my opinion it is a sign of weakness , management can normally get enough managers to cope with one office taking strike action they cannot if an whole Branch area takes strike action.

Thats why we in London we stick together. Thats why Royal Mail has to think very carefully do they want to take us on or not. Sadly we are not like that nationally as some offices are caving in and doing deals which betray the rest of us around the uk who are fighting to protect our future jobs and conditions going forward.

Howver be in no doubt what we wrote in the London calling document is true and will effect every office in the country and all Branchs know it. The question has to be why have they not done something similar ?

[k979aaa]

Why is it being produced by the London Division and not CWU HQ? Have there been no changes in London already - because I would imagine every poster on here has experienced literally dozens of changes since 2007 in their respective offices. If it is union policy then why haven't they come out and said it is policy to each and every branch and if they have then why aren't the branches adhering to it - I can say categorically that changes have been proposed in our office and accepted by the union rep and I can also say that the membership in general haven't the faintest idea what the union policy is and they aren't prepared to take the risk of being sacked and abandoned.

This is so like our office. People have no idea what the union's supposed position is. Including the reps.

A couple of weeks ago, in WTL, a manager was proposing changes to our t&c. The rep was just sat there listening. I had to speak up and ask him about the union position. To give credit where it's due, he did ring area and find out. But should he have needed to ? Shouldn't area make sure the reps are given the information and support they need ?

Latest thing is, manager wants to change all our start/finish times from start of new financial year. Haven't seen our rep. Maybe he's on leave. Another local change seems like it's going through despite union's position.

Like i said London is well organised and they know how too run a ballot and campaign!. But how will it help them when the rest of the UK postal market and every union branch in the CWU outside london has been crushed because of a lack of leadership at the top of the CWU our union!. Do Billy Hayes and Dave Ward not care anymore about the membership of our union someone from the union at H/Q level must have a view on this and enlighten us all for we are all heading into an abyss!.

[k979aaa]

This is a London document because we have carried a united policy across London to defend each other. Royal mail know that if they take execuitve action in one office we will ballot all 130 offices composing of 14000 members.

However this is not just a London issue and we know that the PEC agreed a further number of ballot requests today meaning we now have over 40 offices around the UK either having balloted or requesting ballots.

But we also know not only through posters through this site but details from Royal Mail that a significant number of offices have decided to give in and agree not only to savings but some have even been working with managment on geo route revisons which i find mindblowing.

Look if it pleases everyone I am happy to knock headquaters and believe its time they woke up and paid equal amount of time fighting the industrial issues as they are the politcal issues. But its time we also starting to question what the hell are Branch`s who know what Royal Mail `s agenda is and what area reps and local reps are doing to stop offices from introducing savings.

Now the other point is that it always make me laugh when someone shouts lets have a national ballot. I tell you why we are not at a point where we can be confident of a yes vote. Part of our evidence has to be is why are Branch`s balloting just one office and not their whole branch. In my opinion it is a sign of weakness , management can normally get enough managers to cope with one office taking strike action they cannot if an whole Branch area takes strike action.

Thats why we in London we stick together. Thats why Royal Mail has to think very carefully do they want to take us on or not. Sadly we are not like that nationally as some offices are caving in and doing deals which betray the rest of us around the uk who are fighting to protect our future jobs and conditions going forward.

Howver be in no doubt what we wrote in the London calling document is true and will effect every office in the country and all Branchs know it. The question has to be why have they not done something similar ?

DINGO do you not think that the other branch's have caved in because of a lack of action/leadership i take one point as example the strike action too defend the mail centers all up for it bar one office then cancelled is this rallying the troops and then not demoralising them all in one fell swoop!.

[Martin Walsh]

K979 lets be honest on the mail centre ballot results they were a mixed bag to say the least. There were also differculties with the action where delivery offices were included. Yes the way the action was called off was far from ideal but all except Oxford eventually agreed with the decesion.

I do think it has a lot to do with the leadership but not only at Headquaters but at divisonal and in Branch`s why is it some offices are holding the line where others are not. I would say the difference is where area reps inform their local reps and members thats why you have places like Bristol , Scotland and London are holding firm.

I think personally it is a cop out just to blame headquaters all Branchs know what this is about we have had delivery blue prints and other policies carried for years. It`s time we all got a bit of back bone and produced our own comms and forced Headquaters to do the same .

Thats what we do in London we dont moan and wait for headquaters we do it ourselves. Every other Branch gets paid a rebate to organise the members within their branch and could easily do the same. We have learnt that you wait for ever if you wait on Hqs.

[dvbuk55]

This is a London document because we have carried a united policy across London to defend each other. Royal mail know that if they take execuitve action in one office we will ballot all 130 offices composing of 14000 members.

However this is not just a London issue and we know that the PEC agreed a further number of ballot requests today meaning we now have over 40 offices around the UK either having balloted or requesting ballots.

But we also know not only through posters through this site but details from Royal Mail that a significant number of offices have decided to give in and agree not only to savings but some have even been working with managment on geo route revisons which i find mindblowing.

Look if it pleases everyone I am happy to knock headquaters and believe its time they woke up and paid equal amount of time fighting the industrial issues as they are the politcal issues. But its time we also starting to question what the hell are Branch`s who know what Royal Mail `s agenda is and what area reps and local reps are doing to stop offices from introducing savings.

Now the other point is that it always make me laugh when someone shouts lets have a national ballot. I tell you why we are not at a point where we can be confident of a yes vote. Part of our evidence has to be is why are Branch`s balloting just one office and not their whole branch. In my opinion it is a sign of weakness , management can normally get enough managers to cope with one office taking strike action they cannot if an whole Branch area takes strike action.

Thats why we in London we stick together. Thats why Royal Mail has to think very carefully do they want to take us on or not. Sadly we are not like that nationally as some offices are caving in and doing deals which betray the rest of us around the uk who are fighting to protect our future jobs and conditions going forward.

Howver be in no doubt what we wrote in the London calling document is true and will effect every office in the country and all Branchs know it. The question has to be why have they not done something similar ?

The bigger picture is that most areas don't have 130 offices and 14000 members camped on HQs doorstep, there is no national ballot because there isn't a cat in hells chance of winning one, a further 40 offices round the UK is a mere drop in the ocean, offices haven't betrayed the union by negotiating because that has been the nature of the beast for the last two years and if the union wanted to make certain a policy was followed then it should have publicised it. If there has been a betrayal then the shoe is on the other foot. I can't remember a time when our branch balloted for anything other than elections - now does that tell a tale? In our case I'd love to know what area and local reps are doing to stop the savings - I'd also like to know what the CWU Leadership is doing.

I will say again that the CWU has colluded with RM over short contracts, loss of hours and savings in the past and that has been the reason for a continuance of agreements to make savings - has the leadership made any reference to the current lists going round offices asking members if they would like buy down or VR or made any reference to those already gone? Hours are disappearing faster than a hookers reputation and they are being replaced with part time hours. Our office has been canvassed already and rumour has it there are 7 to go - great, if they can make money on 30 years or more loyal service then good luck to them BUT on the internet on a jobcentre site there are vacancies advertised for the same office on 25 hour contracts - so no guesses as to how many hours the reputed 7 are currently working. So what would your advice be in that situation?

[dvbuk55]

K979 lets be honest on the mail centre ballot results they were a mixed bag to say the least. There were also differculties with the action where delivery offices were included. Yes the way the action was called off was far from ideal but all except Oxford eventually agreed with the decesion.

I do think it has a lot to do with the leadership but not only at Headquaters but at divisonal and in Branch`s why is it some offices are holding the line where others are not. I would say the difference is where area reps inform their local reps and members thats why you have places like Bristol , Scotland and London are holding firm.

I think personally it is a cop out just to blame headquaters all Branchs know what this is about we have had delivery blue prints and other policies carried for years. It`s time we all got a bit of back bone and produced our own comms and forced Headquaters to do the same .

Thats what we do in London we dont moan and wait for headquaters we do it ourselves. Every other Branch gets paid a rebate to organise the members within their branch and could easily do the same. We have learnt that you wait for ever if you wait on Hqs.

Maybe you have hit the nail on the head dingo - get rid of the gravy train and go it alone - they do say if you want anything doing then do it yourself.

[POSTMAN]

Just curious,do branches/divs talk to each other?

Maybe in the present climate there should be more talking.More meetings,collating of info ect.

[dvbuk55]

Just curious,do branches/divs talk to each other?

Maybe in the present climate there should be more talking.More meetings,collating of info ect.

Wash your mouth out - you're talking about communicating there aren't you - hey what would we know about that

[k979aaa]

This is a London document because we have carried a united policy across London to defend each other. Royal mail know that if they take execuitve action in one office we will ballot all 130 offices composing of 14000 members.

However this is not just a London issue and we know that the PEC agreed a further number of ballot requests today meaning we now have over 40 offices around the UK either having balloted or requesting ballots.

But we also know not only through posters through this site but details from Royal Mail that a significant number of offices have decided to give in and agree not only to savings but some have even been working with managment on geo route revisons which i find mindblowing.

Look if it pleases everyone I am happy to knock headquaters and believe its time they woke up and paid equal amount of time fighting the industrial issues as they are the politcal issues. But its time we also starting to question what the hell are Branch`s who know what Royal Mail `s agenda is and what area reps and local reps are doing to stop offices from introducing savings.

Now the other point is that it always make me laugh when someone shouts lets have a national ballot. I tell you why we are not at a point where we can be confident of a yes vote. Part of our evidence has to be is why are Branch`s balloting just one office and not their whole branch. In my opinion it is a sign of weakness , management can normally get enough managers to cope with one office taking strike action they cannot if an whole Branch area takes strike action.

Thats why we in London we stick together. Thats why Royal Mail has to think very carefully do they want to take us on or not. Sadly we are not like that nationally as some offices are caving in and doing deals which betray the rest of us around the uk who are fighting to protect our future jobs and conditions going forward.

Howver be in no doubt what we wrote in the London calling document is true and will effect every office in the country and all Branchs know it. The question has to be why have they not done something similar ?

The bigger picture is that most areas don't have 130 offices and 14000 members camped on HQs doorstep, there is no national ballot because there isn't a cat in hells chance of winning one, a further 40 offices round the UK is a mere drop in the ocean, offices haven't betrayed the union by negotiating because that has been the nature of the beast for the last two years and if the union wanted to make certain a policy was followed then it should have publicised it. If there has been a betrayal then the shoe is on the other foot. I can't remember a time when our branch balloted for anything other than elections - now does that tell a tale? In our case I'd love to know what area and local reps are doing to stop the savings - I'd also like to know what the CWU Leadership is doing.

I will say again that the CWU has colluded with RM over short contracts, loss of hours and savings in the past and that has been the reason for a continuance of agreements to make savings - has the leadership made any reference to the current lists going round offices asking members if they would like buy down or VR or made any reference to those already gone? Hours are disappearing faster than a hookers reputation and they are being replaced with part time hours. Our office has been canvassed already and rumour has it there are 7 to go - great, if they can make money on 30 years or more loyal service then good luck to them BUT on the internet on a jobcentre site there are vacancies advertised for the same office on 25 hour contracts - so no guesses as to how many hours the reputed 7 are currently working. So what would your advice be in that situation?

Well dvbuk55 your are from the same region as i we know what is going on and if london thinks it can win on it's own it will be wrong we all have too stick together a union is nothing without such royalmail will use union busting tactics in one area but not on the nation!. We all up here have seen the divide and rule strategy at work it is not week branches but week leadership from the top of the CWU and it is nothing personal about north/south as that is our leadership but a lack of action and dare i say it VISION!.

[mitzi]

the area reps in our branch are holding the line on NO AGREEMENT on business plan savings. the local reps however are being told that if they dont agree then the next proposal will be much worse. local management are getting amongst the memebrs and telling them that the cwu are blocking buy downs and causing bigger saving cuts as a result the members are putting pressure on local reps to accept the proposals. by the time the area reps are getting to hear of this the deal is done and dusted. there isnt a lot of support from hq, there stock answer is keep negotiating but dont agree. the sheer nonsense of this stance is that area reps run out of arguments and royal mail implement without agreement and NO resistance from local members.
in the good old days area reps would have been able to walk into an office and walk em out the door, sadly those days have gone.

[k979aaa]

the area reps in our branch are holding the line on NO AGREEMENT on business plan savings. the local reps however are being told that if they dont agree then the next proposal will be much worse. local management are getting amongst the memebrs and telling them that the cwu are blocking buy downs and causing bigger saving cuts as a result the members are putting pressure on local reps to accept the proposals. by the time the area reps are getting to hear of this the deal is done and dusted. there isnt a lot of support from hq, there stock answer is keep negotiating but dont agree. the sheer nonsense of this stance is that area reps run out of arguments and royal mail implement without agreement and NO resistance from local members.
in the good old days area reps would have been able to walk into an office and walk em out the door, sadly those days have gone.

If they say anything now they will be out the door and sued to high heaven!.

[dvbuk55]

I've never believed that strike action is the answer because it is self defeating in all but the extreme. In order to win a ballot there has to be trust and a membership that believes the leadership is heading in the right direction sadly there is no trust and recent times have done nothing to unite the membership under a strong and committed leader. Sad to say that individual actions across the country are not going to win any battles but what it will do is fragment the membership even further. What is needed is a cohesive plan that addresses the problems we face in a realistic manner - it's no good saying "we aren't playing", because we don't have a stick - there might be a lot of twigs and stones but what we need is a bloody big club. The membership don't believe in the leadership and RM know it - not because we on this forum say it but because their demeanour and negotiating screech it from the rooftops. Chamberlain was a damaged politician after meeting Hitler - it required a change of leadership to win the war.

K979 had the perfect expression - lack of vision - so well put.

[BELIAL]

And then again. folks are not always who they say they are Always find a good test is ,what are the practical effects of their utterances

[mitzi]

it took a war to win the war. words werent enough.