Bullying complaints at Royal Mail

[johnsouthwales]

sometimes, i wish i had a recording device on me lol.. it would have backd me up, instead of the "can you prove what so and so said"..

[norbert]

May as well talk to the wall!!!!!Especially if the B&H is against a Manager!!!They will do anything to protect each other and lie lie lie! Anything they do wrong just gets brushed under the carpet in the hope it will go away!

brushing the muck under the carpet is the one thing RM are good at , but they're hardly going to say " It's a fair cop , we're a bunch of c**ts and b**tards who operate in a underhand & seemingly illegal manner with dubious agendas " either

Same as most places only RM take things to literal extremes and handle things badly

At one time , old school RM could hide behind the OSA , though there is the " in the public interest " angle , whether there actually really is a security issue to be considered , RM can't be we're civil servants one minute then " we're not a public service , we're a business now " , the next minute . You've got a totally different media now in this digital age , it's not just a column in the local rag anymore , the Google spiders will find it and it's all over the Internet ; and there's the Public Interest Disclosure Act 2004 ( The Whistle - Blowers Charter ) .

At one time , there was some good will , you didn't " kiss and tell " on RM and RM didn't kiss & tell with you , that's all gone , no loyalty given , none expected AND RM gave people enough rope to hang themselves with .

At one time , Tribunals were a rarity , so was RM being shopped to the local rag never mind all that " I'd sack the lot of them , I hope they sack them " from Mrs White on the " I posted a letter once so I know what I'm talking about " site .

Even with :mfo 's efforts to get the Hooper Report rewritten to his satisfaction , there still was the " senior management lack the expertise to run a postal operation and have failed to take staff with them " pronouncements .

[norbert]

sometimes, i wish i had a recording device on me lol.. it would have backd me up, instead of the "can you prove what so and so said"..

RM would twist using devices to make out that you were being underhand and turn it into a " moral crusade " - don't get me wrong , you're not dealing with very nice people and all is fair in love and war

They work on the time honoured very rudimentary military basis ie. " You're just a rating and no one will believe you " - their weakness is arrogance and the tendency to oversimplify things i.e . " they don't get " on the balance of probabilities " - however you need prosecution to nail someone on those grounds .

[brothermagrew]

sometimes, i wish i had a recording device on me lol.. it would have backd me up, instead of the "can you prove what so and so said"..

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[postie200]

From what i hear van sharing wasn't the only thing that caused Lincoln to go out. I understand things had been brewing up their for a while with Bullying from managers.
At the end it came to a head. Infact from one source when they threatened suspension without consultation and a walkout occured, a manager said "go on get out then and hope you get the sack". Being watched and timed on sorting, being sent to other offices if you threaten to work your time.Talking also has been stamped down on, with being moved to putting boxes out of you are caught talking for a few mins. On return to work they were not treated any better. Now they can't eat or drink coffee on the shop floor. Have to take 20min break at 9am, or 4hours into duty. Plus finish on time.

[johnsouthwales]

when using a recording device in a planned personal discussion, you have to inform the other person... if you use a device to capture someone in an unplanned moment of speech or motion saying "hope you get the sack", you don't have to.. only if someone had a mobile phone at the time.... lolll

[stokes11eg]

when using a recording device in a planned personal discussion, you have to inform the other person... if you use a device to capture someone in an unplanned moment of speech or motion saying "hope you get the sack", you don't have to.. only if someone had a mobile phone at the time.... lolll

Maybe time for the R/M and Unions to agree to all meetinfs being recorded, like the police, if thewy have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear.

[brothermagrew]

when using a recording device in a planned personal discussion, you have to inform the other person... if you use a device to capture someone in an unplanned moment of speech or motion saying "hope you get the sack", you don't have to.. only if someone had a mobile phone at the time.... lolll

Not necessarily so brother.

Secretly tape-recorded evidence held to be admissible:
Employers are advised to review their disciplinary and grievance procedures after secretly tape-recorded evidence was held to be admissible.

In light of this recent decision, we would recommend that you review your company procedures (particularly discipline and grievance) and consider specifically excluding the right to tape record any company meetings form your procedures. If you amend your procedures to exclude tape recording, this gives a clear message to employees what is acceptable and may assist if the case proceeds to Tribunal in excluding evidence that has been obtained ‘secretly’. It can also save arguments if an employee comes to a hearing armed with a tape recorder and insisting on taping proceedings.


In the case of Chairman and Governors of Amwell View School v Mrs C Dogherty, Mrs Dogherty, a teaching assistant dismissed for misconduct brought a claim for unfair dismissal in the Employment Tribunal and sought to disclose evidence that was covert recordings of the both the disciplinary hearings and ‘private’ panel deliberations. The Employment Tribunal allowed the secret recordings as evidence before the Tribunal.


The school appealed the decision to allow the evidence on the grounds, that the governor’s human rights had been breached and public policy. The EAT held that there had not been a breach of human rights since when volunteering, the governors had put themselves and the work they did at the school into the public domain. It therefore held that the recordings of the disciplinary hearings should be allowed in evidence. However, it ruled that the recordings of the governors ‘private’ deliberations were inadmissible on the grounds of public policy. This, it said, was due to the importance of the governors being able to have a full and frank discussion to enable them to reach their decision. It was important that the parties should follow ‘ground rules’ in these situations and private deliberation should be just that, private.


It is interesting to note that the EAT may have reached a different decision it the claim had been one of discrimination and the governors had not provided a reason for their decision. One suspects that in those circumstances the EAT may have allowed evidence of the private deliberations.


http://www.eef.org.uk/UK/regions/northe ... idence.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


NEWS

Admissible evidence

Human Resources Magazine has this very interesting short piece on page 11 of its February 2007 issue, written by legal expert Elizabeth Adams:

“It always surprises me how often employees secretly tape-record meetings with their employers, especially disciplinary or grievance hearings. If a case is subsequently brought before an employment tribunal the issue is whether such a tape can be admitted in evidence.

In the recent case of Amwell View School vs Dogherty the employment appeal tribunal considered this very issue.

http://www.scottishsecurityassociation. ... -bulletin/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



From a posting made on another web forum by unknown person:
I am not a lawyer or a union, but I represent people in employment tribunals with some success and I know what the tribunal will and will not tolerate in this area.

In general terms, these are the rules:

If you go around secretly recording every conversation you have, without good reason, and then reveal the contents for amusement later, you deserve to be fired for breach of trust.

If you secretly record conversations because you anticipate that you will capture some discriminatory statements being uttered by another person, which you reasonably believe they would not say if they knew they were being recorded, there is nothing wrong in making the recording, and you may use it as evidence in an employment tribunal. Even if your employer argues that you were in breach of trust by making the secret recording, whatever you arguably did wrong pales into total insignificance compared to the material you recorded.


http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo ... ng-et.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Actual employment Appeal Tribunal Decision - Chairman & Governors Amwell View School -v- Mrs C. Dogherty

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:Qp ... hMLNDA.doc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[johnsouthwales]

if someone had captured a manager taunting staff "i hope you get the sack" during a dispute, does this mean he can turn around and say it cannot be used because it breached his/her privacy rights? hardly a privacy case because he/she made the declaration in public..

or do people pick an choose what is private and what is private and switch them around when they feel like it to get themselves out of a jam?

another way to clarify meetings is write down what is said, but trying to get the other party to countersign is another matter.