Sick certificates.

[norbet colon]

Interesting Billy,but if there was something in it i would of thought the Union would of got hold of it more.
Managers favourite line is we know it's genuine,but you've still gone outside the guidlines or some bollox like that.

The Union do get hold of cases like that.I'd a BRF form off a ATOS origin Dr, showed it to the Area Distribution Rep ; he said I'll have that framed, so RM have given people problems. At the BRF appointment I brought all the hospital paperwork & the medication I've to take on a permanent basis, in the NHS/BUPA etc , that Dr would have to pay indeminity insurance & subs to the BMA in case of a claim,& there are plenty of ambulance chasing solictors.CWU members have reported ATOS ORIGIN Drs to the General Medical Council. The CWU could win ET cases then RM might appeal which means expensive litigation , RM could afford it , but not the CWU.
The only recourse people have is a grievance & then a Tribunual Application , L&C & other directors are New Labour"s Hatchet men to get people through the door by whatever means, they're bigger than the law & tribunuals.
If RM get team working past the CWU, they are not going to want people taking out B&H & ET cases if they can't keep up, giving them problems, nor would a privatised RM want people on light duties with the new way of working /flexibility . RM are also very careful who they pick a fight with as they are monitored by the Campaign for Racial Equality & The Equal Opportunities Commission.
Reps have to be very careful they don't threatened by RM managers or end up on trumped up charges for causing a stir, those RM managers will be backed up all the way to Old Street.

[cwurep1]

All sick is treated as geniune, but you have broke RM standards and will be issued. That is the case time after time. RM issues regardless of circumstance regarding sick. The reasoning and logic is that you could possibly be a potential saving. I have seen people with over 20 years service and 2-3 sick periods in that time and they were issued. The managers are now robotic just following the procedure they have told to follow.

[norbet colon]

All sick is treated as geniune, but you have broke RM standards and will be issued. That is the case time after time. RM issues regardless of circumstance regarding sick. The reasoning and logic is that you could possibly be a potential saving. I have seen people with over 20 years service and 2-3 sick periods in that time and they were issued. The managers are now robotic just following the procedure they have told to follow.

I agree it's totally regimented , if it's been "certified " by RM you have a condition,on not JUST your Dr's say so, you won't be accused of scivving but the contradiction is that your'e playing on that condition/ swinging the lead so things won't be made easy for you.
The only recourse is if RM have broken any Employment Laws is a Tribunual, then you'll be regarded as a loose cannon, a threat & they'll want you out of the building anyway. It is deliberately confrontational & obstructive. RM can get rid of the full timer & replace him/her with someone younger , part-time who'll do the docket when needed , the potential saving.
I used to travel home with Asda Staff, a lot have part-time contracts, they claim tax credits, housing benefit etc when starting, then they pile on the overtime to top up thier contracts , then when it comes to the time thier earnings are being assesed , they stop doing overtime for Asda until they can start again. A lot of staff work when they are ill, because if they go off they'll get a fortnight's overtime ban. Cheaper AL etc obviously as well. Leighton doesn't like Senior Supervisory staff doing ordinary work on higher rates in shops on Saturdays etc, so PHG's etc watch out.
There's a RM proganda plot on another forum talking about women , a untapped resource, read between the lines, AL has just one idea, the Walmart way.

[cappamore]

My doctor has told me before now that once a medical certificate has been issued we are not allowed to return to work until it has expired and any company taking disciplinary action against someone because of time off like this is acting illegally. I told her I work for Royal Mail and she said " oh dear I've heard about their attitude too many times to mention, how on earth do they get away with it "

anyone out there know if this is true and if so how exactly how do they get away with it

They get away with it because a dismissal uner the Att Procedure is defined legally as being "for some other substantial reason" RM can do this as the USO allows them to operate an Attendance Procedure, which of course has been agreed with the CWU and the CWU.

[norbet colon]

My doctor has told me before now that once a medical certificate has been issued we are not allowed to return to work until it has expired and any company taking disciplinary action against someone because of time off like this is acting illegally. I told her I work for Royal Mail and she said " oh dear I've heard about their attitude too many times to mention, how on earth do they get away with it "

anyone out there know if this is true and if so how exactly how do they get away with it

They get away with it because a dismissal uner the Att Procedure is defined legally as being "for some other substantial reason" RM can do this as the USO allows them to operate an Attendance Procedure, which of course has been agreed with the CWU and the CWU.

" Some other substantial reason " is a catch all provision that the courts have deliberately left vague in the 96 & earlier acts, it can mean anything almost whatever you or rather a Tribunual want it to mean but in practice it's worked out to favour Royal Mail " To make things "fair" ". It concerns "Reasonableness" & most likely RM's version of reasonableness.
I watched "Sex, the City &me" , when she got pregnant {Not allowed}, she got shafted {Like RM do] by the City Firm & decided to sue for discrimination. The only Lawyer that would touch the case said they'll do you for costs etc, character assinations, play dirty, if you do win you'll get a scrap but not what you might deserve.RM are spoiling for a test case, that's why they get away with it.They've been known to make things as difficult as possible for ex-staff with the Social, can't have people telling tales about the RM can you?

[POSTMAN]

can't have people telling tales about the RM can you?

Wanna f***ing bet!

[norbet colon]

can't have people telling tales about the RM can you?

Wanna f***ing bet!

I agree!, RM don't want people doing it as it's something they can't control and/or use hype & spin, Walmart have a powerful propoganda machine in the States. That piece by Crozier in The Times yesterday made me laugh, the "greedy" union asking for 27% etc is a example.
Royal Mail's arrogance is actually it's achillies heel , they also don't get "On the balance of probabilities", there's more than one way of skinning a cat.
Quite a few managers locally have had to "pursue another career", or been "Promoted" , one even in Court due to arrogance, all these naughty people leaking poor morale figures etc, disgraceful! giving the service a bad name!

[IWW Fellow Worker]

All sick is treated as geniune, but you have broke RM standards and will be issued. That is the case time after time. RM issues regardless of circumstance regarding sick. The reasoning and logic is that you could possibly be a potential saving. I have seen people with over 20 years service and 2-3 sick periods in that time and they were issued. The managers are now robotic just following the procedure they have told to follow.

When I was office rep, we had a postwoman who had to go into hospital to have a breast lump removed. I couldn't begin to imagine the stress she was under as she had a son of eight. The day before she was due to go in, a line managers asker her if she would take a deliery out on O/T. She said no, as she wanted to get home to spend time with the boy. The manager told her taking the delivery out would keep her mind off things. Absolutely incredible. Fortunately the lump was benign, but when she returned to work, another line manager issued her with first stage warning. No compassion or understnding this 'thing' (I wouldn't call it a man as a man wouldn't have done it) just issued the warning. As there is no appeal at first stage, I wrote to the branch. No joy there. I wrote to Billy Hayes, no joy again. The woman now works in a shop. She was disgusted with the way these sexually transmitted diseases we refer to as managers treated her. A good, consciencious postwoman too.

[madelin4]

These so called "Managers" will come down to earth some day with a bump, some day something will happen to them and they will get there come upings!!!!! poor woman, she shud have went on the sick for a very long time and got her money out off them!!! unreal.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

These so called "Managers" will come down to earth some day with a bump, some day something will happen to them and they will get there come upings!!!!! poor woman, she shud have went on the sick for a very long time and got her money out off them!!! unreal.

This bastard caused so much trouble, he was shunted back to his own office (no names, but they've got a big successful rugby league team nicknamed 'Saints'). He was then given his own office (a small one in north Cheshire) where there was so much crap, he ended up being shipped out again. I hear he's in a big city on the River Mersey where they know how to deal with scum like him. He bears a striking resemblance to Napoleon, the obnoxious turd.

[L Tommo]

Been reading this thread and im gutted to know there are people about like this NAPOLEON SCUM....

STICK HIM ON ELBA LIKE THE REAL ONE....

WOT A COMPLEAT c***!!!


OUT

PS IF THAT WAS MY MUM OR ONE OF MY FAMILY I WOULD SWING FOR THE SHITECUNT!!!!

PPS SORRY FOR SWEARING BUT THAT IS THE LOWEST OF THE LOW.......

[norbet colon]

All sick is treated as geniune, but you have broke RM standards and will be issued. That is the case time after time. RM issues regardless of circumstance regarding sick. The reasoning and logic is that you could possibly be a potential saving. I have seen people with over 20 years service and 2-3 sick periods in that time and they were issued. The managers are now robotic just following the procedure they have told to follow.

When I was office rep, we had a postwoman who had to go into hospital to have a breast lump removed. I couldn't begin to imagine the stress she was under as she had a son of eight. The day before she was due to go in, a line managers asker her if she would take a deliery out on O/T. She said no, as she wanted to get home to spend time with the boy. The manager told her taking the delivery out would keep her mind off things. Absolutely incredible. Fortunately the lump was benign, but when she returned to work, another line manager issued her with first stage warning. No compassion or understnding this 'thing' (I wouldn't call it a man as a man wouldn't have done it) just issued the warning. As there is no appeal at first stage, I wrote to the branch. No joy there. I wrote to Billy Hayes, no joy again. The woman now works in a shop. She was disgusted with the way these sexually transmitted diseases we refer to as managers treated her. A good, consciencious postwoman too.

The Equal Opportunities Commission would have had RM for breakfast for that, high profile strategic case for them, danger is that poor woman might have made herself "unemployable" as a result.
There was a ex RMT rep , usual poacher turned gamekeeper,alkie, you get the picture!, who as Inspector wanted written proof that a Guard's son had lukemia, the Inspector was on a final warning, the manager protecting the Inspector had died so he was advised "to pursue another career".
One Manager got "paid up", a TSSA rep used to carry all the newspaper cuttings about him as staff had shopped the Manager to the papers. That might have had something to do with it!

[cappamore]

EOC probably wouldn't I'm afraid. UNLESS, firstly, the lady could point to a male with a condition affecting males only; say a prostrate problem, who had been absent with that problem and NOT issued with a Stage Warning, secondly, UNLESS she could point to a hypothetical comparator; i.e. by saying that any male with a condition which only males suffer from would not be issued with a Stage Warning for that particular type of absence.

Where the Attendance Procedure is concerned it is always wise to find out details of emplyees who have exceeded the attendance standards and NOT been issued with Stage Warnings, and quote them to managers undertaking Att Proc interviews on the basis of: "his/her record is the same as/worse than mine, therefore I should not be issued with a warning. Exceptions are cases where absences have been discounted due to DDA or an accident on duty.

[norbet colon]

EOC probably wouldn't I'm afraid. UNLESS, firstly, the lady could point to a male with a condition affecting males only; say a prostrate problem, who had been absent with that problem and NOT issued with a Stage Warning, secondly, UNLESS she could point to a hypothetical comparator; i.e. by saying that any male with a condition which only males suffer from would not be issued with a Stage Warning for that particular type of absence.

Where the Attendance Procedure is concerned it is always wise to find out details of emplyees who have exceeded the attendance standards and NOT been issued with Stage Warnings, and quote them to managers undertaking Att Proc interviews on the basis of: "his/her record is the same as/worse than mine, therefore I should not be issued with a warning. Exceptions are cases where absences have been discounted due to DDA or an accident on duty.

I stand corrected , it is wise to have hard evidence, A Asian who couldn't read was given a sorting test after missort complaints off the PHGs, however RM did not test the Asian Men, so the CRE won £18K for her. A alleged profesonial skiver with the CRE took RM to court and won because of those comparators you mention. However that MC has a reputation for botching things, poor management etc.Certain people were "left alone" or a blind eye was turned as a result & orders given to promote, make up to full time etc as a result.Sorry I've a cynical & jaundiced view of RM for some reason!

[POSTMAN]

I originally posted this when i was off sick.
I've had 4 weeks off,my last sick was 17 months ago,one guy at my place was off for 4 weeks same complaint,
his only sick in the 18months he's been in the job and he got a stage 1.

So shall i go to the interview on Wednesday or go out side instead and try to piss in the wind

What argument could i put up to try to not get him to issue it,or is it just not f***ing worth it!
Just a normal backache no AOD.
Examined and signed off by Doctor for the last 3 weeks of it