TNT Foot Delivery Trials in Liverpool

[norbert]

I would argue that the good news is this:

Liberalization across Europe has slowed down and will slow further as the European recession sweeps in. The appetite to privatize across Europe has stalled as countries have realized it's not quite that simple bring in competition.
I expect post to rural areas will increase in cost unless a clear government policy says that it's a human right to have access to mail at a reasonable price. Subsidies exist be it money for Scotland, the Post Office from Government etc.... So there's no reason for the foreseeable future why this will not be the case. however, the service that will provided under this remit will continue to erode as did rural bus services. There are plenty of previous examples if you look closely enough to suggest where things are heading.

Enough from me for now.....

you are absolutely spot about it not being so simple and bringing in competition - that WAS meant to be the idea on the railways , it hasn't really happened except for say Birmingham to London against Virgin Trains and to a limited extent on the East Coast Main Line from Edinburgh / Yorkshire / North East to London .

It actually costs five times more in subsidy than ' the bad old days of BR " - don't get me started on Franchaises and bidding for them , all those companies have to somehow make money , the state helps by bankrolling them - it's like doing a deal with the Council and setting up your own shops in a town with no other companies being allowed to compete with you .

Walmart get that arrangement in the States - only they make every other competitor bankrupt then clean up !

First problem was that the railways are different from motorways with say National Express running their coaches and Del Boy and Arthur Daley coaches running their buses at £5 to £10 cheaper to undercut . :

The buses haven't worked you've just got First Group , Stagecoach , Better Bus etc cleaning up and maybe the local council subsidizing rural routes .

The equivalent seems to be the " solution " for RM delivering to the back of beyond

You can only get so many trains on a route . Great North Eastern had to pay Blue Labour a premium to have that cherry - picked top route - unfortunate thing was these firms can go bankrupt .

That seems to be the mentality of Postcon though i.e. We'll give any Tom , Dick and Harry a license to deliver mail with some dodgy characters in a white van to "compete " with Royal Mail and Joe Public will give them work and it'll force that terrible inefficient previously nationalized RM to sort itself out - all by magic

The same idea is used with DSA , the playing field being tilted towards those other companies and cutting and cutting - not quite so simple . There's nothing practical or forensic about these ideologues who seem to inhabit a parallel universe . However as Belai says don't underestimate Stapleton there's method in his madness ?

The same ideas haven't worked in Telecoms - in Europe , they're years ahead of us in broadband speed - here it's all these companies sending data down antiquated copper wire bar Virgin who bought up Tele-West and NTL using fibre - optic .

I think Postcon think Mail will work like that & there will masses of choice just like if you think British Gas is too expensive you switch your supplier - yeah right !

They've tried the same ideas in the NHS with internal markets but that's been a disaster , too many managers not enough nurses , porters , cleaners and doctors and PFI not being a bargain .

The PFI idea was tried out by the Fascist Mussolini in bankrupt Italy during the second world war to somehow pay all these contractors for roads , infrastructure without really having the means to pay for them .

As regards Scotland and subsidy to the Highlands etc for loss making mail - it could be very "interesting " if the SNP gain power and go for devolution because there will be resentment from England & Wales - don't know what the solution is ? - Royal Mail Scotland as a separate entity ? - as with the NHS etc it'd mean beaurocracy and armies of pen pushers and managers arguing over who pays for what !

[plodsie]

If they are going to try E2E then it will be interesting to see how they get on, but where will they get their mail? Are they going to sort it all themselves? Are they going to introduce their own Postcodes if not then RM should charge them for the use of our Postcode system.
Here is what I can see happening, DSA goes to RM to be walksorted, RM deliver it back to TNT, TNT deliver business mail only, making them look good to businesses, any household mail or mail they can't be arsed with is given back to RM to deliver. Resulting in RM double-handling mail, and getting the blame for the delay .... and losing more money. PURE GENIUS!

[BELIAL]

They can deliver all my DSA mail if they want, I'll even leave the gates open

[F0zziebear]

There seems to be some mis-understanding in a previous response. TNT Post collect upwards of 2bn items per annum. Probably all of it is currently inward sorted and delivered by RM. RM charge approx. 13.5p per item, which means that currently TNT Post is making about 1p profit per item. Small returns on such large volume. The only way to make real money for competitors in this industry is to deliver it yourself. Why hasn't this been already you may ask?

1. To employ someone even on minimum wage requires large volumes of mail. Bear in mind that a delivery round can only be so large geographically otherwise you wouldn't be able to complete it in a reasonable time.

The biggest fear for RM would and will be when the mail completely by-passes them. This is why the pricing policy for DSA is some important. You want to charge the competitor a high enough price so you don't lose out but not too high so that they decide to do it themselves.

On top of this customers have stated quite clearly they want as good if not better quality of service than RM. To do this straight away is almost impossible unless you offer a broader delivery window.

SO no, a competitor is not going to be asking RM to double-handle stuff. They might blame them as has been the case in the parcels business, but persistent acts like this will cause internal security to provide evidence to the regulator and get the competitors licence revoked.

Interesting sidenote did anyone see that AMTRAK has gone into administration? Comeptitors going out of business......

[andy2007]

You had me confused for a minute there Fozziebear. According to the message, where their Website used to be. They are actually called Netfold, but were trading as AMTRAK. I wonder wether they were counting on being found, whenever anyone was looking for AMTRAK Trains on the Web. Or wether they were in some way linked to the Train Company.

[F0zziebear]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west ... 592300.stm

[andy2007]

They can't have been linked to AMTRAK Trains then, or there would have been at least some mention of them.

It's a terrible shame, whenever a Company goes under. Particularly, when it's so hard to find new Jobs.

I suppose, it's just a case of too many operators going for the same work. Plus the current Economic problems.

[F0zziebear]

I raised this (probavbly best in another thread) as a possible example of how the telecoms industry went. Initially there were numerous private companies who came into the market and offered rival services to BT. What really happened was that most offered BT's services but tried to undercut their costs (as BT had higher fixed costs). Eventually a few major players either created or bought out the smaller companies and we now have an almost oligarchy effect. Whilst no price fixing has happened yet we have seen this happen in the aviation industry. I suspect a similar pattern will occur in the mail industry at most there will be 2-3 networks in this country which in my opinion is 1-2 too many.

There is no need to have red, yellow and orange trucks going up and down this country's roads. We only have so much post and I suggest we have one network. This is too simplistic though as the different companies want different products and different IT systems. If there is a way of creating a USB type interface that allows these companies to create products on a generic platform (i.e. the RM network) then we could have a healthy amount of competition and innovation. This is probably pie in the sky thinking.

The longer it all drags on the more chance RM has of improving it's operating efficiency (more automation, less jobs) and make it harder for rivals to enter the market. Surely this is a good thing in the sense that RM becomes a leaner organisation and is customer orientated. The sacrifice has been jobs, scope of the service, industrial relations, employee conditions etc...