D2D Presentation.

[Big Daz]

Shed thread, CWU forum

You were such a chilled out fellow back then

That is not possible BD - that was well before my time

I must admit daz things were a lot better then, there wasn't really any contentious unfair issues to mar the forum - there may have been an odd banning but nothing too riotous and it was funny - now there is a great deal to be concerned about and my upbringing and background make me probably too aggressive but there are serious problems within the union and the workplace that need to be addressed, not that I am going to change things but someone with the necessary skills may well take up the challenge this sets - is it you?

Id better see what MW recalls from the old CWU forum, he has just been re-elected as branch sec via a ballot.

[dvbuk55]

Shed thread, CWU forum

You were such a chilled out fellow back then

That is not possible BD - that was well before my time

I must admit daz things were a lot better then, there wasn't really any contentious unfair issues to mar the forum - there may have been an odd banning but nothing too riotous and it was funny - now there is a great deal to be concerned about and my upbringing and background make me probably too aggressive but there are serious problems within the union and the workplace that need to be addressed, not that I am going to change things but someone with the necessary skills may well take up the challenge this sets - is it you?

Id better see what MW recalls from the old CWU forum, he has just been re-elected as branch sec via a ballot.

I hope to god he's not still peddling that second rate web site - if you've seen the one for Chester Zoo, carried out by an orang utan, you'd realise how talentless he is Give him my congratulations and best wishes - BUT ONLY IF HE IS VOTING NO

[cwupaul]

Has anybody looked on hellmail.com there is this bit about smart d2d if it's true we may be the winners for once , until a new deal comes in.
The SMART-Drop Seminar, to be held in London at the Royal Institute of British Architects, will bring together a host of industry leaders to reveal how SMART-Drop increases the potency and accuracy of targeting by as much as 10 times.

In practice, that means users can target in units as small as 150-200 households - a remarkable leap forward and one that presents exciting new opportunities for businesses of all sizes.

[packmule]

I want one of these average rounds CWU have looked at

At their average of £12.39 for d2d the round only has 247 delivery points ( based on 3 d2d) not like in the real world .
Please tell me where these round are , I want one

[DirtyHarry]

Has anybody looked on hellmail.com there is this bit about smart d2d if it's true we may be the winners for once , until a new deal comes in.
The SMART-Drop Seminar, to be held in London at the Royal Institute of British Architects, will bring together a host of industry leaders to reveal how SMART-Drop increases the potency and accuracy of targeting by as much as 10 times.

In practice, that means users can target in units as small as 150-200 households - a remarkable leap forward and one that presents exciting new opportunities for businesses of all sizes.

No, the wonderful world of junk mail holds no interest for me.
If I were prime minister, I would outlaw all forms of unsolicited mail, cold calling, bits of shyte put inside newspapers, in fact, I would turn back the clock to a time when advertising was a more sedate monster, rather than the out-of-control one we all suffer today.

[shytalks]

I`m currently getting £30 a week for D2D`s ..so there`s a LOSS straight away. Also how can someone with half the number of calls on there duty get the same entitlement as me..this new agreement stinks !!! The union has sold us all down the river..

[DirtyHarry]

I`m currently getting £30 a week for D2D`s ..so there`s a LOSS straight away. Also how can someone with half the number of calls on there duty get the same entitlement as me..this new agreement stinks !!! The union has sold us all down the river..

If you're a member of the CWU, VOTE NO.

[Big Daz]

I`m currently getting £30 a week for D2D`s ..so there`s a LOSS straight away. Also how can someone with half the number of calls on there duty get the same entitlement as me..this new agreement stinks !!! The union has sold us all down the river..

Simple they are not getting the same entitlement, you will both do 39/40 hours work for the same weekly pay.

DTD payments under the proposed agreement cease

RML were adamant they were nmot going to as they put it pay for DTD twice which is what they calim would happen if DTD go into workload and the pence per item continues.

Bob Gibson and his team got around this by persuading RML to keep the DTD money in the paybill (national not individual) which along with shift allowance which pay and mod 2007 said would be looked at in joint working group 2 and only kept (as grandfather rights if no satifactory solution is found) forms the monies used for the supplement . As its a basic pay supplement and NOT a DTD supplement it is discrimatory to pay to some and not all. As its a basic pay supplement it is paid according to contracted hours.

[welshy808]

Bob Gibson and his team got around this by persuading RML to keep the DTD money in the paybill (national not individual) which along with shift allowance which pay and mod 2007 said would be looked at in joint working group 2 and only kept (as grandfather rights if no satifactory solution is found) forms the monies used for the supplement . As its a basic pay supplement and NOT a DTD supplement it is discrimatory to pay to some and not all. As its a basic pay supplement it is paid according to contracted hours.

I understand that under the proposed agreement that D2D monies cease and a very small amount of the profits will be used along with my ESA to make up a delivery supplement. What I don't understand is how it can be fair. I don't understand how both Dave Ward and Bob Gibson could possibly think it was a good deal, let alone the Deal Of The Cenuary.
I was just reading LTB 172/05 with regard to election material and it struck me that Bob Gibson has not just changed his opinion slightly, but made a complete U turn.
Bob Gibson wrote
"The rationale behind the move to a pence per item system of remuneration is that, firstly, it is a more equitable system for our members, in that they will be directly rewarded for the amount of items they deliver. In other words it is directly workload related, whereas the overtime payment system was not, whereby (for example) someone can receive 4 hours overtime payment for delivering 600 items while another person receives the same payment for delivering 200 items or even less.

Secondly, there is also the Working Time Directive to be considered which will ultimately limit the number of hours our members will be able to work; the pence per item system enables the remuneration for election material to continue unaffected by the WTD or Royal Mail’s maximum hours policy, and avoids our members simply replacing their normal overtime with the overtime they receive for delivering election material."

How does this square with the proposals for D2D and the delivery supplement.
Has Bob Gibson and Dave Ward become so far removed from reality that in five years they have forgotten their principals and the fact that they are elected to fight for CWU members rights and conditions not to partner RM in maximising profits.

[Big Daz]

welshy808

The answer is DTD will be included in workload planning so we will all (FT)do the same amount of hours work for the same pay. That matches up with my personal view point of fairness.

The unfair aspect is that the ESA and DTD money is now being shared out on a hourly rate basis between everyone without any extra money being put into the supplement to counter act those who will see the figures on their payslip drop.

Imagine the supplement at £30.60

= £1591.20 + basic pay increase of £360.88 =£1952.08/43 weeks = £45.39

/44 weeks = £44.36

/45 weeks = £43.37

[welshy808]

welshy808

The answer is DTD will be included in workload planning so we will all (FT)do the same amount of hours work for the same pay. That matches up with my personal view point of fairness.

The unfair aspect is that the ESA and DTD money is now being shared out on a hourly rate basis between everyone without any extra money being put into the supplement to counter act those who will see the figures on their payslip drop.

Imagine the supplement at £30.60

= £1591.20 + basic pay increase of £360.88 =£1952.08/43 weeks = £45.39

/44 weeks = £44.36

/45 weeks = £43.37

Daz, that is the biggest load of sheet I've heard.

D2D have always been part of my workload. The Only difference is that they will be included in any future office revision.
No figures have been put on call rates sort rates etc. so it's all down to TRUST and I for one trust Bob and Dave as much as I trust Higson.

An AG Reserve on a 20 hour contract will receive £10.30 even if he is covering a Full timer and working 40 hours.
That is just unfair.
A member of the Union who is on a 1hour contract will receive 50p, no matter what duty he covers.
again unfair.
The bloke sat in the callers office, who doesn't even touch D2D will receive £20.60
Totally unfair.

Bob Gibson travels around the country boasting that HE secured £55 million of D2D money to put into this supplement.
Well If He hadn't reneged on his beliefs the AG and 1 hour contract would be paid for what they do.
If as Bob Gibson says some parts of London are losing D2D contracts because they don't deliver them then why should the rest of us and that includes the large areas of London that are getting 3 D2D a week, share our hard earned D2D monies with them.

Dave Ward keeps droning on about sorting the pensions out whilst we still have a Labour Government. Why put the vote back so far that in all probability Parliament will be dissolved and no Government will be sitting. Is he afraid of a NO vote.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The answer is DTD will be included in workload planning so we will all (FT)do the same amount of hours work for the same pay. That matches up with my personal view point of fairness.

So will all grades represented by the CWU throughout RML now be on the same rates of pay. I think not. I do agree that you will never ever get an absolutely fair system but I do think that we have in the proposal a system that is less fair than the present one.

I am sure all these high level negotiators if they were doing the work, as I have suggested on 2 posts that they do, then they would have come up with a better idea.

Someone on a rural doing 200 houses on the subject of D2Ds is doing less work, less prep and until the IWT, Geo Route/Pegasus etc are introduced to correct these inconsistencies if will always be unfair as they will have the same prep time as a 600 point duty holder.

There is the nub of the problem I have with the agreement. To make the D2D payment fair and based on workload/hours we have to accept the new tools that measure efficiency. However, we won't know the details of the IWT, BSI, Prep Rate, Walk Length, Call Rate, Attendance rate etc until after the agreement is ratified.

In English we are being expected to vote on a proposal on which we as individuals do not have the full information to help us recognise the drawbacks and improvements we need and are therefore unable to make an informed decision.

Voting on an agreement in which we were not fully aware of the implications happened in 2007 and look where we were in 2009.

[Big Daz]

welshy, look at the word I used after workload "planning"

At the moment we are expected to manage 20% of DTD reagardless and time to do this is not built into the actual planning of the duty.

That is what CWU mean by DTD into workload correcting the above. Perhaps a different term should have been used in the proposed agreement

[dvbuk55]

welshy, look at the word I used after workload "planning"

At the moment we are expected to manage 20% of DTD reagardless and time to do this is not built into the actual planning of the duty.

That is what CWU mean by DTD into workload correcting the above. Perhaps a different term should have been used in the proposed agreement

Perhaps we should have had a different agreement One that was specific, included walk rate, revision tools and was equitable for all and not have winners and losers.

If you think that RM are going to increase the workload time above the three which are already prepared and delivered in work time then stop smoking the waccy baccy. I think we have already established that the resources required will be whatever the DOM thinks it should be without recourse to involvement of or agreement with the CWU.

[welshy808]

welshy, look at the word I used after workload "planning"

At the moment we are expected to manage 20% of DTD reagardless and time to do this is not built into the actual planning of the duty.

That is what CWU mean by DTD into workload correcting the above. Perhaps a different term should have been used in the proposed agreement

We are currently expected to prep and deliver 20% of up to 3 D2D items per Day within duty time, no overtime can be paid against D2D, but sufficient time must be given for the preparation and delivery of D2D's. Therefore if any one Preps them or delivers them outside their duty time they are the people who have put us in this situation. As I said before D2D are already part of my workload.

So if sufficient time must be given for the Prep and delivery of D2D, what has this proposed agreement gained. Nothing, except removing the payment and possibly if we are ever so lucky Royal Mail might just might increase the call rate in Georoute.
What the CWU means by D2D into workload counts for nothing until they agree call rates, walking speeds etc.

Daz you are trying to defend the indefensible.

D2D Pro Rata NO
3pm last letter on Saturdays NO
No Payment for D2D No
No Cap on D2D No
Single day(Saturday D2D) No