£400 flexibility.

[Carnoustie]

in shipley thursday and fridays are 2.30 finishes,mon-wed are 2pm and sat is 12.30 the union rep and manager told us if we agree to come in at 5.45 instead of 6.00 we would get the £400

Memo to self: if I want a comp day, make sure I take it on a Thursday or Friday ...

[tomtom]

i am new to job and cant help but think reading some of these comments,we will end up like british leyland,who yeah who

[Herodotus]

As always - I find 'listening' to the opinions on here very valuable! There have been some good opinions & points raised. In defence of the humble Unit Reps - wheresoever they may be - let us not forget that their primary function - is to echo the opinions & desires of the majority of the CWU members at his Unit. I read everything that I can relating to this latest agreement. I listen to the advice of my Area Delivery Rep. I pass this on to my members - one on one & at 'meetings'. My Unit is a Phase 3 'Trialling Unit' & we all have Pegasus 2 & the pension debacle to contend with. My Unit - yesterday - finally agreed to me signing off Phase 2. Listening to the above comments - we have fared a damn deal better than most! However - one glaring issue re the seniority of 'Reserves' was allowed to stand. We are a 5 on - 1 off Unit & carry 13 Reserves.

I cannot but feel that I have failed my members - albeit the glaring truth that the majority of those present - were rushing about - as per usual like headless chickens - concerned with 'making time' on a busy Thursday. Over half of those at the meeting - had the usual '1000 yard stare' & were not concerned with any issue - other than 'When do we get the 400 squid?' - 'Is this gonna take long?' & the ever present classic 'What was that all about!?!?'

As a Union - we are far too 'fragmented' - with little or no - actual communication with - 'The powers that be' in the CWU. More & more responsibility is being heaped upon the Reps with the least - if any - 'release time'. We can all sit back & blame our 'sheep-like apathetic members' BUT - considering the word 'Communication' is part of the description of our Union - our actual 'back-up' - is p*ss poor! We have to take a long hard look - at our Union & accept that changes have to be made. We are very skillfully - being 'divided & conquered'!!!

[POSTMAN]

i am new to job and cant help but think reading some of these comments,we will end up like british leyland,who yeah who

They're all postmen now!!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

i am new to job and cant help but think reading some of these comments,we will end up like british leyland,who yeah who

British Leyland although it has some parallels with Royal Mail was a different kettle of fish.

Originally it was formed by the Government to amalgamate a number of small British Car firms, however the management structure was not changed and IIRC all the Management structures were left in place.

The cars themselves were really bad and their quality left a lot to be desired I know I used to own a Marina. Depending on your viewpoint this could be blamed on either working practices or management style. British Leyland were well know for having strikes, rightly so, but to blame just the strikes for the downfall of BL is a bit simplistic. BL were also known to have a management which appeared to want to antagonise the Unions, who sometimes played into their hands and went on strike at the drop of a hat.

BL was ruined by many things.

1. Poor car design - they were 5 - 10 years behind other manufacturers.
2. Their manufacturing process was outdated by as much as 15 years even in the 70s.
3. Working practices were inflexible and people would not work on another trades business, but that was normal for the 70s.
4. Financial Planning was typical of a nationalised industry and they always ran at a loss.
5. Constant strikes.

I don't believe any of these things can be said of Royal Mail even at its worst so IMHO we are a long way from ending up like BL, but people and politicians on the "right" will always try to compare any business with a strong Union presence with either the NUM or BL but if you look deeper in both cases the scenarios just don't fit.

[Big Daz]

Herodotus

I signed off phase 1 and 2 yesterday with my DOM./ Cluster DOM and ADR also signed it off. Now waiting for AGM and divisional rep to sign it off which i imagine is just a mere formality.


At the end of the day the CWU membership rightly or wrongly voted in favour of flexibilty and it will be mplemented as with all national aggrements at every DO and MC which obvisouly makes life difficult for reps in offices with strong NO votes.

[mucker]

yep we have in our office :lfo :cfo

[Herodotus]

Yep - understood Big Daz - just having a bad day & was having a belly-ache in frustration! We will keep soldiering on - coz we have to! Good luck to all - & tallyf**kingho!

[Big Daz]

Still looking to the future, challenge pegasus starts next month at my office

Ive had a 2 day CWU training course on pegasus and to be honest on paper it seems very good.


Each walkholder(s) gets to sit down with the planner to verify all the information for their walk is up to date and correct who in my patch happens to be our previous DOM who was moved sideways to take on the planner role. Go back to the late ish 1990's and he was our delivery manager for a while and go back even further to the 1980's and he was a postman at our delivery office. He also lives a 5min walk from the delivery office so im hoping all this experience of our D.O as a postman and a manager will prove Advantageous.


Once pegasus has produced routes it up to me as rep to negotiate with the DOM the final set of routes/duties taking in to account feedback from the membership and then the revision gets put to a vote of the mbrs.


As for taking deliveries out, no chance what so ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gazza2]

if i break a few eggs in this message i do not retract. geo route is a must if it is done office wide because this is where it works weeding out the 2HR duties alleged 3and a half hours
of blood sweat and sat indoors from the real i say real back breakers poor buggers lugging endless bags around duties that make you old i dont take the party line i dont take the
management line i deal in fairness is it not time for less selfishness sorry i must be on drugs and delluded

[POSTMAN]

Still looking to the future, challenge pegasus starts next month at my office

Ive had a 2 day CWU training course on pegasus and to be honest on paper it seems very good.


Each walkholder(s) gets to sit down with the planner to verify all the information for their walk is up to date and correct who in my patch happens to be our previous DOM who was moved sideways to take on the planner role. Go back to the late ish 1990's and he was our delivery manager for a while and go back even further to the 1980's and he was a postman at our delivery office. He also lives a 5min walk from the delivery office so im hoping all this experience of our D.O as a postman and a manager will prove Advantageous.


Once pegasus has produced routes it up to me as rep to negotiate with the DOM the final set of routes/duties taking in to account feedback from the membership and then the revision gets put to a vote of the mbrs.


As for taking deliveries out, no chance what so ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this bit worried me

Once pegasus has produced routes it up to me as rep to negotiate with the DOM the final set of routes/duties taking in to account feedback from the membership and then the revision gets put to a vote of the mbrs.

what do you mean only members will vote...??????????what about the non union members or doesnt there opinion count????


incidentally i was agast at your replys to wontongs post....

all having aright go at him

then he clarifies it for the very poor readers and you all think its fab

just glad to see you can accept your not always right.still no apologies for the nasty comments.cant expect to much progress

You will get a separate deal,union members get the cream,you lot will get the drippings of what's left.
It's only fair

[baldrick]

Of course only Union members vote. The Union Rep is negotiating on behalf of Union members who
get to endorse or reject the proposals.
If you want a say, join the Union. Otherwise feel free to negotiate your own agreement.

[norbert]

i am new to job and cant help but think reading some of these comments,we will end up like british leyland,who yeah who

British Leyland although it has some parallels with Royal Mail was a different kettle of fish.

Originally it was formed by the Government to amalgamate a number of small British Car firms, however the management structure was not changed and IIRC all the Management structures were left in place.

The cars themselves were really bad and their quality left a lot to be desired I know I used to own a Marina. Depending on your viewpoint this could be blamed on either working practices or management style. British Leyland were well know for having strikes, rightly so, but to blame just the strikes for the downfall of BL is a bit simplistic. BL were also known to have a management which appeared to want to antagonise the Unions, who sometimes played into their hands and went on strike at the drop of a hat.

BL was ruined by many things.

1. Poor car design - they were 5 - 10 years behind other manufacturers.
2. Their manufacturing process was outdated by as much as 15 years even in the 70s.
3. Working practices were inflexible and people would not work on another trades business, but that was normal for the 70s.
4. Financial Planning was typical of a nationalized industry and they always ran at a loss.
5. Constant strikes.

I don't believe any of these things can be said of Royal Mail even at its worst so IMHO we are a long way from ending up like BL, but people and politicians on the "right" will always try to compare any business with a strong Union presence with either the NUM or BL but if you look deeper in both cases the scenarios just don't fit.

Apparently BL used a Marina as a rally car with success , must have had considerable modification as the understeer was dangerous and they'd have to put the engine in from one of the Triumph or MG sports car range .
The engine from the production Marina dated back to the 50's and the whole car was designed in 6 months flat .

What the Japs did with the motorbikes was firstly win all the races with their bikes , with the production ones they'd send out questionnaires asking for improvement ideas / constructive criticism which was taken on board , the corporations would go back to the drawing board and give customers the improved models they wanted to buy .

The Japanese couldn't take over the world by blowing all these countries to b***ery so instead they offered people the stereos , cameras , cars etc that were better or on a par with the Germans , the British and the Yanks that people would want to buy instead .

The British were stuck with tuned versions of 30's engines , it's the we invented everything attitude , the empire etc , the Police liked the bikes in some ways , the weight the handling , the frames but it would be nice if the lights and equipment were still intact when they got off the road drill on wheels , getting shook to death etc .

A not too old biker told me there would be all the British Bikes lined up in the showroom with newspaper and sawdust underneath them to catch all the oil they leaked , like Leyland the factory machinery tolerances wern't that stringent , if they made them to Jap tolerances the engines would explode as their was nowhere for the oil to go .

[TrueBlueTerrier]

this bit worried me

Once pegasus has produced routes it up to me as rep to negotiate with the DOM the final set of routes/duties taking in to account feedback from the membership and then the revision gets put to a vote of the mbrs.

what do you mean only members will vote...??????????what about the non union members or doesnt there opinion count????


incidentally i was agast at your replys to wontongs post....

all having aright go at him

then he clarifies it for the very poor readers and you all think its fab

just glad to see you can accept your not always right.still no apologies for the nasty comments.cant expect to much progress

Why should the union accept non members voting. By not being a member, you have tacitly agreed that you already accept Royal Mails position on everything, otherwise you would have an individual or organisation with experience in collective bargaining presenting your viewpoint. We do its called the CWU. Of course there is nothing to stop non union members starting their own Union or Association, good luck with having RM recognise it.

[moggymoz]

this bit worried me

Once pegasus has produced routes it up to me as rep to negotiate with the DOM the final set of routes/duties taking in to account feedback from the membership and then the revision gets put to a vote of the mbrs.

what do you mean only members will vote...??????????what about the non union members or doesnt there opinion count????


incidentally i was agast at your replys to wontongs post....

all having aright go at him

then he clarifies it for the very poor readers and you all think its fab

just glad to see you can accept your not always right.still no apologies for the nasty comments.cant expect to much progress

Why should the union accept non members voting. By not being a member, you have tacitly agreed that you already accept Royal Mails position on everything, otherwise you would have an individual or organisation with experience in collective bargaining presenting your viewpoint. We do its called the CWU. Of course there is nothing to stop non union members starting their own Union or Association, good luck with having RM recognise it.