Corbyn

[baldrick]

I've read that article (misleadingly headlined) and listened to the interview and there is nothing about re-nationalisation of Royal Mail. He says he wants the universal delivery continued and would like to see public control of Royal Mail, not public ownership.

[baldrick]

dvbuk55 you really should stop believing everything you read in the Daily Mail - which supported the fascist Blackshirts in the 1930s.

Corbyn took it seriously, enough to deny it, so he must have believed some of it.

Well if he hadn't denied it you would be saying that it must mean it's true.

[baldrick]

Corbyn stated in the guardian/ observer at the weekend that "The Royal Mail" was a target for renationalisation.
It's not my myth. take it up with him.

It does show how good he is at getting his policies across to the voters though when even his supporters don't seem to know what he's up to.

I take it you are referring to this interview in Saturday's Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -education" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well that would be the first time I've seen any reference to Corbyn saying that RM could be taken into public ownership. I don't know whether that reporting is accurate or in context. I have never heard him say that. I hope it is true, but it is not in his policies for the leadership election.

[dvbuk55]

but it is not in his policies for the leadership election.

Why would it be, it would be a general election policy for the labour manifesto. The longer this goes on the less credible he appears and should he win things can only get worse. I think he's using the Jezza Jedi Mind Trick from Star Wars judging by the unswerving support for his ludicrous policies.

[jetblack]

Most people are inherently protectionist by nature jet, that doesn't necessarily make them Tory scumbags or selfish right wing nutbags but it does mean they'll instinctively protect what they have, working class people especially since having nothing for a long time makes having something even a little worth holding on to, this is what socialism has to understand, if any policy right or left threatens that people will reject it.

Yeah - you are right. But what people have to understand is that when it was in public ownership we owned it all. They might think they are better off with the £3k shares - but its almost akin to fools gold. Its a more abstract concept for them to get their heads around, I'll grant you, but valid and true for all that.

As for the specifics of royal mail for the last 15 years under public ownership the company was run with a private sector ethos, our terms and conditions were eroded and the service had already been under attack so what kind of "'re-nationalisation" is he promising, a return to that, does he have another model of public ownership in mind or as I suspect is he just looking around for something to stick a public ownership label on without any idea of how to actually make it work?

It should still be run as a business even in public ownership IMHO. That is, productivity and efficiency should be paramount. We aren't running a charity here. Difference being that the profits should be reinvested into the business and pension scheme - not skimmed off the top by Goldman Sachs et al.
Re. ownership of RM - we wouldn't necessarily need to have outright ownership, just the controling share ie. 51%.
Don't know what Corbyns plans are but I would like to see some kind of workers co-operative. Like with Tower Colliery, or something along those lines. But any kind of public ownership that takes it out of the hands of City asset stripping profiteers would do me fine.

But hey - its nice that we are talking about it at least. Because with Stephen Kinnock at the helm it would be dead in the water. We'd be talking about wether the personal tax allowance should be £12k or £12.2k - or wether driverless cars are good or bad. I see his father, the suitably honoured Lord Kinnock, is sticking his 2 penneth in again. What a sell out prat.

What I have discerned most on this forum over the last few years, and please no-one take this personally as it isn't meant to be targeted at anyone, is a sort of "fatalistic resignation" - you can see it now over on the pensions threads when it comes to discussions about the end of the defined benefit scheme.
Sometimes this resignation is dressed up as a kind of perspicuity - that is, an understanding of the financial intricacies of why the scheme should be closed/RM should be privatised/jobs cut etc seem to be turned into virtues. As if we too could be the ones making the decision to nuke our own financial futures
Sometimes its dressed up as pragmatic realism.

But mostly, for the majority, the resignation isn't dressed up as anything - its more an open belief in their own powerlessness to affect change - and to, therefore, accept the lot doled out to them. This has been the story, politically, of my adult life.

Of course both the CWU, and us as individuals have to shoulder some of the responsibility here, and now need to step up to the mark - but what a bloody shame it is to bare witness to.

However, the only sure thing in life is that everything changes - and wether it be through socio/economic conditions, political scandals or the free flow of information the internet revolution has brought, I do believe that people have had enough of being sold short by those that are meant to represent them, and of feeling powerless about the direction of their own and their childrens lives.

Wether its JC or not, change is upon us.

If, a few years down the line, its Dan Jarvis, Stephen Kinnock, Keir Starmer or Tristram Hunt at the helm - it won't make a jot of difference for the populist project that once promised to be "New Labour". The game is up.

[dvbuk55]

Wether its JC or not, change is upon us.

Right on citizen jet, lets man the barricades and start tearing up the cobblestones Actually there are no cobblestones now so the barricades would be senseless, pretty much like thinking Corbyn is ever going to be elected to PM and bring about a revolution of leftist thinking.

As an aside though I did live in a street which was cobblestones in the 70s. A three up two down for which I paid 3500 and sold it 3 years later for twice as much to buy my current 3 bed two bath semi for 12,000 see how times change - if it was up to Corbyn I'd be moving back to the cobbled street.

[jetblack]

A three up two down for which I paid 3500 and sold it 3 years later for twice as much to buy my current 3 bed two bath semi for 12,000

A 3 bed two bath semi hey On the west side of town I bet as well. Well done sir.

Just as a matter of interest, is your HD telly 720p or 1020i ?

[dvbuk55]

A three up two down for which I paid 3500 and sold it 3 years later for twice as much to buy my current 3 bed two bath semi for 12,000

A 3 bed two bath semi hey On the west side of town I bet as well. Well done sir.

Just as a matter of interest, is your HD telly 720p or 1020i ?

Which one jet, there's at least 5 in my house, one mounted on the wall in my office but that's only 32 inch and would probably be 720p, the others will be 42 to 50 and they are, I think 1080p, I'm not sure what 1020i is but the latest one is Ultra HD, whatever that means, my son deals with those things and tells me which one we should have and he bought the latest one. Oh, there's a utility room as well and I have a garden with 3 sheds, a pond, decking, outdoor lights, so I'm living the middle class dream but a working class man and a labour supporter. These things weren't handed to me though I had to work long and hard and plan to achieve what I wanted for my family. Are you beginning to realise where this discussion is heading jet? You see there are more people like me than there are Corbyn supporters.

[jetblack]

I have a garden with 3 sheds

They must be handy for your middle aged sons who are still trying to save up for the deposit on a house....

,,a pond, decking, outdoor lights, so I'm living the middle class dream

You, DVB, are living the American Dream son.

Are you beginning to realise where this discussion is heading jet?

Yep, I think so. You are a 10 bob millionaire trying to get me to keep my mouth shut that you aren't wearing any clothes

Could we get back to the issues in hand ?

[dvbuk55]

They must be handy for your middle aged sons who are still trying to save up for the deposit on a house....
Yep, I think so. You are a 10 bob millionaire trying to get me to keep my mouth shut that you aren't wearing any clothes
Could we get back to the issues in hand ?

Well I have two middle aged daughters who both own their own homes and a 30 year old son who lives at home but should he wish to buy a house I would gladly give him the deposit because I have more than 10 bob these days and lets face it you can't take it with you can you. In fact he probably has enough salted away to provide his own deposit. I'm surprised you don't see this as an issue in hand. I am a run of the mill labour supporter who would not vote labour at the next election if Corbyn is the leader.

[Tman]

Funny, old jet was imploring you to play the ball not the man a couple of posts back...so that was a quick about-face.
Another thing with these so-called Left Wingers, is how a fantasy Corbyn wish-list of "things I'd like to see in a Utopian world" become firm plans to the acolytes. Corbyn's at it this morning about the rail network.
Why doesn't he go the whole hog (as he's never going to be called out on it) and talk like 1970s Miss World contestants, and state that he'd like to see an end to child poverty, housing shortages, NHS waiting lists, Islamic extremism and gulls nicking your pasty down in Cornwall?
Thinking about it, he pretty much has...

[dvbuk55]

Corbyn's at it this morning about the rail network.

Why doesn't he go the whole hog (as he's never going to be called out on it) and talk like 1970s Miss World contestants, and state that he'd like to see an end to child poverty, housing shortages, NHS waiting lists, Islamic extremism and gulls nicking your pasty down in Cornwall?
Thinking about it, he pretty much has...

Funny, looking at him I didn't imagine him being an early riser because no matter what time you see him in the media he looks like he just got up.

I think you forgot "world peace" tman, though he is noted to be a pacifist, which is one word for it I suppose.

[fishtank]

I can't see anything in this thread that addresses the most important fact, Labour under Corbyn are incredibly unpopular with the people needed to get the party into power and turn all of those policies whether you believe in them or not into something more than just a topic of conversation among socialists.

The media won't change, the present PLP have nailed their colours to the mast, deselecting the present PLP and selecting more "left-wing" candidates is a huge risk for Corbyn and he knows it, I think something or someone has to go.

[jetblack]

The electoral system needs reform.

It isn't fit for purpose - which, presumably, is the expression and representation of the will of the people.

Imagine what its like for a nation of Scots ( let alone the disaffected post industrial swathes of northern England). Its bad enough that the Parliament is what, 700 miles away. But add onto that the knowledge that their political representation is effectively being nullified, or at least being held in the balance, by people like this guy living what, 600 miles away ? A minute portion of the UK electorate with 5 tellys, 3 sheds and a sauna in the conservatory.



Can we agree on this much at least ?

[baldrick]

but it is not in his policies for the leadership election.

Why would it be, it would be a general election policy for the labour manifesto.

It should be in any Labour GE manifesto. Renationalisation of Royal Mail is Labour Party Conference policy, but was ignored by the previous leadership.