'Innovative duty structures'

[laudrup11]

Heard a lot from Ward and co in various agreements about 'innovative duty structures' ie 4 day weeks and 9 day fortnights.
Any office have these?? How do they work - and more importantly how would I go about getting them into my office!!
If I bring it up with my DOM (not the sharpest) his stock reply is 'costs too much -no chance'
Unfortunately as I dont have too much knowledge of these duty patterns it's pretty hard to contradict him.
Any help?

[POSTMAN]

We're looking at 4 day weeks (10hr days)down our way,but i can't see it being voted in.
We would go from a 6 am start to 5 am start.That is due to the longer walks and last letter has to be before 2pm.(PostCon)
And each duty would have to absorb half of another duty,which will make our walks about 4-30mins.
We already touch just over 3hrs and that's more than enough.

The carrot is the seriously long weekend every 3 weeks or summin,bout 5 days off on the trot.
But just chatting about it,seems our guys wont want it,area are sorting out a presentation or summin to give us the low down soon.

[k979aaa]

We're looking at 4 day weeks (10hr days)down our way,but i can't see it being voted in.
We would go from a 6 am start to 5 am start.That is due to the longer walks and last letter has to be before 2pm.(PostCon)
And each duty would have to absorb half of another duty,which will make our walks about 4-30mins.
We already touch just over 3hrs and that's more than enough.

The carrot is the seriously long weekend every 3 weeks or summin,bout 5 days off on the trot.
But just chatting about it,seems our guys wont want it,area are sorting out a presentation or summin to give us the low down soon.

Four hours thirty min delivery has anyone done a pilot of that time span on delivery to me seams too long what about toilet break's rest break's and arnt you suppose to have a break every five hour's by law!.

[POSTMAN]

We're looking at 4 day weeks (10hr days)down our way,but i can't see it being voted in.
We would go from a 6 am start to 5 am start.That is due to the longer walks and last letter has to be before 2pm.(PostCon)
And each duty would have to absorb half of another duty,which will make our walks about 4-30mins.
We already touch just over 3hrs and that's more than enough.

The carrot is the seriously long weekend every 3 weeks or summin,bout 5 days off on the trot.
But just chatting about it,seems our guys wont want it,area are sorting out a presentation or summin to give us the low down soon.

Four hours thirty min delivery has anyone done a pilot of that time span on delivery to me seams too long what about toilet break's rest break's and arnt you suppose to have a break every five hour's by law!.

Exactly,not sure what will be sorted but it's being looked at,seems a few offices in my part of London are interested.

[LDV 350]

There is no way in hell i would agree to be out for 4-30 hours, has anyone given any thought on the severe cold in a northern Scottish winter? it could be the end of you, not to mention toilet breaks or heat fatigue in a heat wave down south being out in the hottest part of the day

[johnnyp]

Im sure they had 4-5 hour delivery trials a few years ago and they were a disaster.

[DGP1]

Im sure they had 4-5 hour delivery trials a few years ago and they were a disaster.

That's what we have now but so many people come in early so they can get out early it's beginning to be a joke

[trythat]

Nearly all our rural jobs are 5 hours plus, fair enough we have a van, but its always been like it.

[madelin4]

They will prob do what they like as done with most other things!!!

[Fluke]

I cant see many offices adopting a 4 day week, because you would need to increase the number of leave reserves. Every third duty would need to be a duty reserve (2 people in 1 person off) and we would still need the same number of leave reserves to cover annual leave and sickenss. It would keep our jobs secure but there's nothing in it for managers. Dave Ward and his talk of innovative duty structures' ie 4 day weeks and 9 day fortnights are Pie in the sky crap:mad . The only part of this agreement managers are interested in are the bits where we give up somthing to make a saving for them and their bonuses. You have only got to look at the fight some Reps are having to go through just to get managers to revert back to earlier starts on a Saturday, and thats in the agreement. Longs and shorts, summer staffing, flexability, Geo/Pegasus, swings and roundabouts, Where's the benifit in any of this for us?

[andy2007]

This isn't a new idea for RM. We have had 4 day (10 hrs per day) duties for about 6 years now, although there's a lot less available than there were to start with. It backfired badly, as we were understaffed for one day per week. They couldn't force anyone to give up their 4 day duty, so whenever someone leaves it, they change it to a 5 day one, before making it available to anyone else. I think there's 3 left on Lates. You'd think they would have learned from their mistakes by now wouldn't you?

If it can't work in a 24 hour operation like an RDC, what chance does it have on Deliveries?

[johnnyp]

I cant see many offices adopting a 4 day week, because you would need to increase the number of leave reserves. Every third duty would need to be a duty reserve (2 people in 1 person off) and we would still need the same number of leave reserves to cover annual leave and sickenss. It would keep our jobs secure but there's nothing in it for managers. Dave Ward and his talk of innovative duty structures' ie 4 day weeks and 9 day fortnights are Pie in the sky crap:mad . The only part of this agreement managers are interested in are the bits where we give up somthing to make a saving for them and their bonuses. You have only got to look at the fight some Reps are having to go through just to get managers to revert back to earlier starts on a Saturday, and thats in the agreement. Longs and shorts, summer staffing, flexability, Geo/Pegasus, swings and roundabouts, Where's the benifit in any of this for us?

My office has been on a 4 day week for 18 months now and we love it.I dont care if i work to my time every day,2 days of a week which rotate its my long weekend this week finished yesterday back in next Wednesday and we get that every third week.When i first started we worked 6 days ,then we went to 11 day fortnight,then a nine day fortnight,then a five day week and now a 4 day next up a 3 day week All introduced by our branch when Dave used to be in charge and encouraged our reps to get these sort of duties for us.It can and has been done ,ok you work a little bit harder but its well worth it,also if you want to work your Rest days on docket earnings are there as well

[brothermagrew]

We're looking at 4 day weeks (10hr days)down our way,but i can't see it being voted in.
We would go from a 6 am start to 5 am start.That is due to the longer walks and last letter has to be before 2pm.(PostCon)
And each duty would have to absorb half of another duty,which will make our walks about 4-30mins.
We already touch just over 3hrs and that's more than enough.

The carrot is the seriously long weekend every 3 weeks or summin,bout 5 days off on the trot.
But just chatting about it,seems our guys wont want it,area are sorting out a presentation or summin to give us the low down soon.

Four hours thirty min delivery has anyone done a pilot of that time span on delivery to me seams too long what about toilet break's rest break's and arnt you suppose to have a break every five hour's by law!.

k979aaa
Quite agree with you on the issue of toilet breaks and rest breaks the undermentioned may alighten you as well.
What are my working hours rights in a nutshell?
Most adult workers have the following rights:

the right to a break where the working day is longer than six hours;
A guaranteed rest period of 11 hours every working day;
A guaranteed rest period of 24 hours once in every seven days;
A ceiling of 48 hours on the maximum average working week;
A ceiling on night work of an average of 8 hours in every 24;
A free health assessment for all night workers with a possibility to transfer to day work (where it is available) if working at night is damaging a worker's health; and
The right to four weeks annual leave.

However, the law is unduly complicated and there are quiet a few variations.

The weekly limit on working time is an average. You can work more than 48 hours in a week as long as your average hours don’t exceed 48. The average is worked out in different ways for different groups of workers, and the workforce as a whole can agree to change the way it’s worked out.

You can sign an individual opt-out and lose the protection of the weekly limit, but you can reverse your opt out at any time and regain your rights. The notice period for this cannot be more than three months. There is no opt out from the 48 hour average weekly limit on nightwork or any of the other provisions.

[POSTMAN]

My office has been on a 4 day week for 18 months now and we love it.I dont care if i work to my time every day,2 days of a week which rotate its my long weekend this week finished yesterday back in next Wednesday and we get that every third week.When i first started we worked 6 days ,then we went to 11 day fortnight,then a nine day fortnight,then a five day week and now a 4 day next up a 3 day week All introduced by our branch when Dave used to be in charge and encouraged our reps to get these sort of duties for us.It can and has been done ,ok you work a little bit harder but its well worth it,also if you want to work your Rest days on docket earnings are there as well

You've mentioned this before and i always forget to ask this....

How do the dutys span out then?
Give us a normal day,how long is the average walk,how big ect.
There is no way that we can absorb half a walk into another at my place,it would kill us.

[Fluke]

I cant see many offices adopting a 4 day week, because you would need to increase the number of leave reserves. Every third duty would need to be a duty reserve (2 people in 1 person off) and we would still need the same number of leave reserves to cover annual leave and sickenss. It would keep our jobs secure but there's nothing in it for managers. Dave Ward and his talk of innovative duty structures' ie 4 day weeks and 9 day fortnights are Pie in the sky crap:mad . The only part of this agreement managers are interested in are the bits where we give up somthing to make a saving for them and their bonuses. You have only got to look at the fight some Reps are having to go through just to get managers to revert back to earlier starts on a Saturday, and thats in the agreement. Longs and shorts, summer staffing, flexability, Geo/Pegasus, swings and roundabouts, Where's the benifit in any of this for us?

My office has been on a 4 day week for 18 months now and we love it.I dont care if i work to my time every day,2 days of a week which rotate its my long weekend this week finished yesterday back in next Wednesday and we get that every third week.When i first started we worked 6 days ,then we went to 11 day fortnight,then a nine day fortnight,then a five day week and now a 4 day next up a 3 day week All introduced by our branch when Dave used to be in charge and encouraged our reps to get these sort of duties for us.It can and has been done ,ok you work a little bit harder but its well worth it,also if you want to work your Rest days on docket earnings are there as well

I aint knocking it if it works for you. I personally would love a four dayer, but the I just cant see many offices getting it purely because theres nothing in it for RM in our office and for the reasons I outlined.

Can you tell us how you cover leave, sickness and days off and possibly compair it to how it was run before? Did it cost RM or was a saving made? I'm not trying to find fault with what you've got, I'm just trying to see if there is anything that could be used in our office as posties would love a long weekend every third week.