On a duty for 2 years

[Drdoom217]

Can anyone help? We currently have about 25 odd duties goin up to sign (yep badly run office), and there are a few where some people have been on them ( reserves some part time). Can anyone tell me how this works can they "get" these duties, undermining seniority. The argument is that they have been on it for "2 years" ( they haven't I know they have been moved).

My question is, is there an agreement where people covering a duty can claim it if they have been covering it the majority of the time?

[ted_e_bear]

I'm sure there's something in the way forward agreement that states if someone's on a duty for 6 months then it's deemed to be theirs, but having said that I'd say it's the fairest way to just advertise them all now, because if management had actually offered them when they became available then you wouldn't be in this situation.

[Drdoom217]

I've read the way forward agreement and cannot find anything to support this. Rather everything points to seniority unless it's a skilled job.
I'm curious if anyone has ever seen or had this happen in their office.

[ted_e_bear]

Just looked myself and I can't see it either but I'm certain I read it somewhere. There's quite a few more agreements since the way forward, it's maybe in one of them, see below link for agreements.

https://www.cwu.org/reps/postal-agreements/

[zipmeister]

Its all in the way forward agreement ,Seniority .

[Dorset Plodder]

All vacancies should be Advertised within the unit. No dodgy deals behind closed doors.

The only exceptions are normally a duty requiring particular skills i.e The Locker Room, or a duty that's been "Ring Fenced" due to medical reasons.

All Duties should be allocated by SENIORITY (like it or lump it). People will argue that they're better/faster, why should some Old Git get the duty, they know it better etc. However if you don't use Seniority you'll have to rely on the DOM making a fair & honest decision.

If you find people are getting allocated a duty ahead of you (on the seniority ladder) kick up a fuss. Talk to the Unit Rep about it, and if not happy go above them to the Area Rep. This has happened in my Office, in the past, and those people have been kicked off those duties.

[SpacePhoenix]

All vacancies should be Advertised within the unit. No dodgy deals behind closed doors.

The only exceptions are normally a duty requiring particular skills i.e The Locker Room, or a duty that's been "Ring Fenced" due to medical reasons.

All Duties should be allocated by SENIORITY (like it or lump it). People will argue that they're better/faster, why should some Old Git get the duty, they know it better etc. However if you don't use Seniority you'll have to rely on the DOM making a fair & honest decision.

If you find people are getting allocated a duty ahead of you (on the seniority ladder) kick up a fuss. Talk to the Unit Rep about it, and if not happy go above them to the Area Rep. This has happened in my Office, in the past, and those people have been kicked off those duties.

I heard mention once that they also get advertised externally at the same time. Don't know if it's only certain duties or if they all get advertised (though the external ones might just be done as x number of hours over y days)

[Acca Dacca]

No that doesnt exist

All duties must be advertised and signed for based on seniority - not because someone has covered it for a while

[Dorset Plodder]

I heard mention once that they also get advertised externally at the same time. Don't know if it's only certain duties or if they all get advertised (though the external ones might just be done as x number of hours over y days)

Generally someone Retires, or Jacks more likely, that leaves their Duty available. Firstly it's advertised Internally... notice on the board ... "names below if you're interested"..... (unless the DOMs trying to parachute one of his cronies into it. ) .... which doesn't take too long to discover as suddenly Postman Brown Nose is making himself comfortable on the frame.

Once that duty has been assigned, on a seniority basis, your unit will be short of a Postie. That vacancy is then normally advertised externally. What can happen is if you have several vacancies you'll have a load of New Recruits turn up. If that vacant duty was a Monster Duty (probably why the old duty holder jacked) non of the Resident Posties will want to touch it with a barge pole.

Then a New Recruit, who is admittedly not very senior, will be allowed to sign for it ... because nobody else wanted it. The fun and games starts when you advertise a staff vacancy externally and you have some currently serving Posties transfer in from elsewhere. They keep their Seniority (if there's no break in service) and totally mess up the status quo! That really starts the Dinosaurs Grizzling!

[2yearpostie]

so what happens if there is a break in service and can a pt postie apply for a ft walk?

[POSTMAN]

Way forward page 25 onwards...
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=11941

There is no such thing as a 6month 2year stay on this duty malarkey, period.

[Dorset Plodder]

so what happens if there is a break in service and can a pt postie apply for a ft walk?

If there's No break in service ... i.e finish at office A on Saturday .... start at office B on Monday .... you retain all seniority, from the day you joined RM.

If you have any break in service your seniority will start from the start date of your second period of employment with RM. Your seniority regardless of break still counts for qualifying for extra leave intitlement I believe.

In theory there should be two Re-sign lists. One for PT and one for FT. Unfortunately if you're PT you wouldn't normally be allowed to sign for a FT duty. However since the only major difference is the indoor prep element I don't see why (If no one else wants it) you couldn't have your contract changed to FT.

[SpacePhoenix]

Why don't DOs do resigns based on the outdoor element only with full timers automatically having indoor stuff added to whatever duty they sign for? It can't make any difference whether it's a PT or FT doing the outdoor element

[Dorset Plodder]

Why don't DOs do resigns based on the outdoor element only with full timers automatically having indoor stuff added to whatever duty they sign for? It can't make any difference whether it's a PT or FT doing the outdoor element

There is no Common Sense or Logic in this Business anymore SP. In Theory that would work I think ....... BUT you've got to factor in the "Lazy Bastard" Factor.

PT Duties are meant to be prepped by FTers in most cases. That's why Van Shares normally have one FT & one PT partner. The FTer prepping nearly both sides and the PTer coming in at a later start time and having the majority of his side of the duty prepped.

In reality the "Lazy Bastard" Factor kicks in. The FTer makes sure he preps all his own side and then preps some of the PTers, then he takes advantage of the fact that his Van Share partner hasn't arrived yet to have a wander about and a chat to his mates. Perhaps he'll prep a bit more of his partners side. Then when his partner turns up at his later start time he'll say, "Oh I didn't have enough time to prep it all mate". Then as his partner is throwing off what remains .. IPS ... Tracked ... and parcels he'll take the opportunity to wander around chatting to his mates again and getting a cup of tea, moaning about how he's ready to go out but his partner is so slow at throwing their duty off.

There are obviously some good FTers who do a proper job of prepping, and the Van Shares work well. However you can see how the FT/PT system is open to abuse.

[SpacePhoenix]

Why don't DOs do resigns based on the outdoor element only with full timers automatically having indoor stuff added to whatever duty they sign for? It can't make any difference whether it's a PT or FT doing the outdoor element

There is no Common Sense or Logic in this Business anymore SP. In Theory that would work I think ....... BUT you've got to factor in the "Lazy Bastard" Factor.

PT Duties are meant to be prepped by FTers in most cases. That's why Van Shares normally have one FT & one PT partner. The FTer prepping nearly both sides and the PTer coming in at a later start time and having the majority of his side of the duty prepped.

In reality the "Lazy Bastard" Factor kicks in. The FTer makes sure he preps all his own side and then preps some of the PTers, then he takes advantage of the fact that his Van Share partner hasn't arrived yet to have a wander about and a chat to his mates. Perhaps he'll prep a bit more of his partners side. Then when his partner turns up at his later start time he'll say, "Oh I didn't have enough time to prep it all mate". Then as his partner is throwing off what remains .. IPS ... Tracked ... and parcels he'll take the opportunity to wander around chatting to his mates again and getting a cup of tea, moaning about how he's ready to go out but his partner is so slow at throwing their duty off.

There are obviously some good FTers who do a proper job of prepping, and the Van Shares work well. However you can see how the FT/PT system is open to abuse.

Needs the line managers and DOMs to crack down on the FT not doing all the prep that they should be doing