Laid off... what are the chances of Senior Management backtracking before April?

[Ste.Mc]

As most will be aware, all Christmas temps/agency got laid off Xmas eve....

I started October 2020 as a Xmas temp.

I absolutely smashed it, got stuck in, picked it up easy, worked all the overtime and hours required and currently putting in between40-50hr weeks and bagged the job (or so I thought). Out of all the temps that started at the time, only 3 of us got kept on.

Problem is, for over the last 12 months the contract failed to appear.... we went through various DOM's and managers etc.... but every new manager that came in saw the 3 of us and how much we put in and the effort to help our DO and all said the same that we will be getting kept on etc...

Fast forward 12 months (October this year) the contract materialised, but there were some queries from us which pushed them back. On the agency we worked our way through the 6 and 12 month period and got the payrises to match, so we were querying as to why the new contract meant we had to start from scratch on a 6 month probation and start on basic rate and build up again...?

We finally got the answer that it would just be that way (this was November now)

Next querying was we had to apply for the job (but because we currently work there it meant we didn't have to do online assessments), so this pushed it back until December as HR just being so slow processing the queries.

Sod's law as the contracts we have here with us which aren't signed as still with HR at the moment are now pointless as the new lay offs on Xmas Eve means we've now been left without a job and can't be recruited until April 2022

Feels like an absolute kick in the teeth and been hung out to dry.

Had absolutely no reason to suspect we'd be jobless as every manager along the way has promised we will get a job and contacts were coming. Therefore myself and the 2 others have spent up for Xmas, new cars, new houses, new bills throughout the year as we thought we had job security.

Apparently our cases have been escalated to the regional manager who's taking it onboard to try and push it through, but I can't see anything changing until senior manager realises how much of a mess DO's are getting into and hopefully backtracks?

Our DO is currently understaffed. Most days, a lot of walks are 2,3 sometimes 4 days worth of mail. Since Xmas eve a minimum of 10 walks a day are getting failed at the moment with staff sickness and lack of staff.

What are the chances this will be backtracked before April? Can't really afford to hold out til April for a decision and going to have to start looking for work elsewhere if it doesn't get sorted.

[Dorset Plodder]

Apparently the DOM now has more say over his local recruiting. So if you've been working in a particular DO, and got on OK, I'd have a word with the DOM, especially if they're short of staff.

All Recruiting used to be done centrally "Look on the Website for any vavancies" But the DOM now has more input. I'd have thought you'd be an ideal candidate if you already know the Duties and the Area. Try chasing the Local DOM. Good Luck.

[Ste.Mc]

My manager is on the case but apparently it's out of his hands.

I saw the leaked email/documents higher up sent to all managers laying off all temp staff and no recruiting until April 2022 (on the Unions Facebook page)

1. Remove all agency staff except those in high impact (failing ) offices or who have committed to non service or Sunday working - they will be sacked after this.
2. Terminate, on Christmas Eve, all Christmas direct recruits
3. Remove all hired vans
4. Review new recruits (even those agreed as part of revision activity)
4a. Any new recruits not yet started to be deferred till April 2022
4b Recruitment requests deferred till April 2022. HR will advise on those to be terminated!
5. Review Fixed Term Contracts - determine whether it is necessary to terminate between Christmas Eve and New Years Eve.! To be clear fixed term contract staff numbers have been agreed as part of revision activity - any attempt to remove them by executive action will be met by an appropriate response,


My manager and the Union rep is speaking to the area/regional manager who is dealing with the case for us. We have our contracts, they were sent by email, but not officially signed or taken on yet so we fall under these new rules that came in Xmas eve with recruiting.

Apparently the area/regional manager has given a 11th of Jan deadline for it to be resolved before taking it higher so it is just a waiting game at the minute.

It's just a sh*t situation. Not to blow my own trumpet, but I'm a grafter... me and the other 2 people regularly do 40-50hr weeks. We clear backlogged walks, I do LAT's everyday etc... so obviously myself and the 2 others currently left without jobs but it's also affecting the DO as we are the regular overtime people that happily do all the overtime offered etc...

I'm just hoping it gets resolved sooner rather than later. The amount of walks being failed and tracked being failed due to shortages I'm hoping there is some kind of backtrack. Fingers crossed

[Dorset Plodder]

It's Normal Practice for RM to start tightening their belts after Christmas and on the run up to the April payrises. It won't be much longer before they start trying to convince everyone that they haven't got any money in the pot and they didn't make as much over Christmas as they thought they would.

Luckily nowadays they have to declare their profits so there's not as much room to BS everyone.
I would ask yourself if you really want to work for a Company that would treat you like that? I don't know your circumstances, or the work available in your area, but the consus amongst other Forum users is that this job is no longer particularly well paid, for unskilled labour, and £12 an hour is achievable in many other areas of employment... with far less crap attached!

[rambo1]

Welcome to the bizarre world of royal mail, a communication company who don't speak to each other. I'm sure it's very frustrating for you and I feel for you. Have you tried the justsayit@royalmail.com email to higher up? That can sometimes get things sorted out. Worth a try. Good luck.

[Munchboii]

Had this happen to me.

Joined as a xmas casual and worked hard so was kept on, doing loads of overtime. Moved between 2 different DOs and was on a temporary contract for 20 months in the end.

Handed in my notice couldnt take it any longer.

[TopperGas]

The present situation happened the same last year then, when the company gets in a worse mess, recruitment starts up again in the spring, if you like the job I'd hold my nerve and see what happens in April. As far as other posters saying there's better jobs out there, I'm not so sure that's really the case for everybody, as I've not found anything which comes near the money RM will pay for a similar "unskilled" manual job offering similar hours.

[Shirtbuttons]

What similar unskilled job would that be? I see parcel deliveries being carried out by other courier firms but they never have bags of letters and leaflets to deliver as well. I wonder if the other couriers have to cut off to get to addresses by a certain time ? Ie special deliveries . I wonder if they have so many parcels they can’t fit them in their van and have to leave them behind? I work a 8 hour day and don’t even get time to blow my nose. I’m prepping at a decent rate whilst watching the time, then delivering 20 bags of mail under pressure to get done on time. Go home exhausted everyday for a fair days pay??????

[chickenwittle]

What similar unskilled job would that be? I see parcel deliveries being carried out by other courier firms but they never have bags of letters and leaflets to deliver as well. I wonder if the other couriers have to cut off to get to addresses by a certain time ? Ie special deliveries . I wonder if they have so many parcels they can’t fit them in their van and have to leave them behind? I work a 8 hour day and don’t even get time to blow my nose. I’m prepping at a decent rate whilst watching the time, then delivering 20 bags of mail under pressure to get done on time. Go home exhausted everyday for a fair days pay??????

I see it the same but we do have a start and finish time , unlike other couriers that have to deliver a certain amount as they are paid per parcel as well as having to pay for their own fuel and insurance.I find now that I just focus on my finish time and do what I can in between, I often bring items back including tracked and refuse to feel bad or as if I have somehow failed or let the side down because this is how managers want you to feel .This is all royal mails doing and I have no pride in providing a service for my customers anymore.

[Norfolk 'N' Chance]

The present situation happened the same last year then, when the company gets in a worse mess, recruitment starts up again in the spring, if you like the job I'd hold my nerve and see what happens in April. As far as other posters saying there's better jobs out there, I'm not so sure that's really the case for everybody, as I've not found anything which comes near the money RM will pay for a similar "unskilled" manual job offering similar hours.

Im in the same boat... worked hard since start of november many 9hr and 10hr days 6 weeks of 6 days in a row before I had two days off and then back on to 6 days a week. Worked Boxing day and all the Bank Holidays over xmas doing shed loads of test kits/LATs and SD's.

No doubt in the cities and surrounding areas there are better/equally paid jobs available, but in the rural communities theres nothing much. What there are is mostly minimum wage jobs or cash in had jobs for well below minimum wage with no questions asked. I totally understand that lots of people have had enough and want to leave, maybe id be the same after 20+ years. But there are people out there (e.g. long term unemployed) that want to work and see RM as a very viable position.

Im certainly not looking for forward to going back to the Job Centre every fortnight only to be offered pig farming, poultry factory work, cleaning, etc. At least the season being what it is they wont be pushing turkey catching as job of the month.....

[TopperGas]

What similar unskilled job would that be? I see parcel deliveries being carried out by other courier firms but they never have bags of letters and leaflets to deliver as well. I wonder if the other couriers have to cut off to get to addresses by a certain time ? Ie special deliveries . I wonder if they have so many parcels they can’t fit them in their van and have to leave them behind? I work a 8 hour day and don’t even get time to blow my nose. I’m prepping at a decent rate whilst watching the time, then delivering 20 bags of mail under pressure to get done on time. Go home exhausted everyday for a fair days pay??????

Well before the Christmas rush I was speaking to an Amazon driver on my walk and he said he had on average 160 packages/parcels a day to deliver, he had no choice but to work 6 days a week and said the 6th day usually paid for his petrol, on top of that he had to pay his car leasing costs, insurance and service costs, I doubt he was entitled to either sick or holiday pay or even pension contributions, I didn't get the impression from him he was earning more than a postie nor working less hours. I doubt there's any courier co's offering a better overall package than the RM.

[bustedflush]

I started as a temp and it took 2.5 years of continuous employment before I became 'substantive'? or whatever the term was at the time, i.e. permanent (after badgering the DoM). I didn't think your pay or terms could be reduced for continuous employment (where you mention 'starting on basic rate and building up again'.)
The only difference I can see is that I was recruited directly by RM rather than that stooopid sub-company that does the Christmas agency contracts so there seems to be some kind of get-out here whereby once recruited by RM technically it can be said you're working now for a different company so begin again - I thought there was legislation somewhere about that sort of scam against rights accrued with continuity of employment for essentially the same job, but I'm not an expert by any means.

I spent over 2 years worrying about these temp. contracts and whether I would be booted before another 3 or 6-monther arrived at my DO to sign from HR. It's crap, it really is.

It's clear they need you but as you said there's a directive from above which doesn't seem to apply need or logic to the situation.

If it transpired you did have a gap of a few weeks or a month then they did offer you permanent employment but with the caveat you begin again on the pay and time-served scale, well it stinks to high heaven. Almost like going back to the 1930's where men would turn up at the factories or docks seeing if they were picked for a day's work.

In the DO I was in, people like you who had proven themselves reliable and capable were like gold dust and were only a tiny minority of the temps recruited who could hack it basically and could stay the course. It defies logic what has happened to you, I sincerely hope you get the call it's resolved favourably for your position.

[Norfolk 'N' Chance]

Fantastic response Bustedflush

[Murdoch]

With the overuse of agency, and those bullshit fixed term contracts. It was always pretty clear the plan was to have a certain level of disposable workers, or "flex" as they call it. So they could do exactly this, cull a bunch of them in preparation for quieter times. The company isn't even close to being well enough resourced to be able to do this, unless they are happy to continually fail mail, and pay little attention to the USO.

The advice to anybody in a similar situation (in the future), sure first prove yourself a capable worker, BUT get yourself converted ASAP, tell your DOM that you need secure work or you'll leave, apply for any other RM vacancies in the area, moan to your co-workers, get them to badger the DOM, and UNION REP... Literally everything in RM is a battle. Once you get converted the next battle is getting a contract to match your hours.

Working for an agency is by definition casual work, you have a zero hour contract, you can be terminated with no notice, as they can just say "we have no hours" for you. These contracts suck, and offer no security. Use them only as a foot in the door.

When I got converted, it was obvious to me that I'd start at the beginning of the Royal Mail pay-grade and I was on a hilariously small contract compared to how many hours I worked. But the trade-off was a secure contract, and a platform to start hassling the DOM to give me a better contract, while building up the RM benefits.

Never delay getting converted by querying those things, it's well established that you start with a new contract, as much as that sucks.

[Norfolk 'N' Chance]

Dear All

I find the term "Converted" an odd one, but I guess its common in the RM vocabulary. It is a word that has been mentioned previously to me at the DO.

As a daft casual, can anyone spell out what the process of being converted entails at all please? - I appreciate that there has to be a want/need by the DOM in the first place, but assuming that, what do I need to provide? bearing in mind I have previously applied numerous times done the online tests, been interviewed and am currently on the the 3 month waiting list (albeit that expires pretty soon). - With the current recruitment ban, i cant help but think that being converted is unlikely to happen even if it was offered?

Any info much appreciated.

Thanks