Bringing mail back, advice?

[Jmartindale130]

Hi all, so I've been with royal mail for a few months now, I know the basics, been assigned a van share duty with somebody else and in general I love the job

When we are both in everything goes smoothly, I don't mind working over to get the walk cleared and some days we are up to two hours over

But it seems every time the duty holder in paired with is off there is nobody to cover

So I'm left on my own with a 2 person duty, having to take tracked from one side and mail from the other side.

Today was a saturday and I couldn't work over, told the manager this, informed her that not all the mail might go, didn't really say much about it so off I went

Managed to get all parcels done from the side that didn't go out but then I had double mail on my side of the walk

In the end I had to bring two loops back, just mail no tracked or anything, but I feel bad bringing mail back and I know its going to affect me on Monday as I'm slow at prep as it is (don't usually prep, only when duty holder is off) and I'll more than likely be on my own again

So what I'm asking is it normal for there to be no cover for days off? It's been 3 days now of me on my own on a 2 person duty

[DDDJAM36]

It's the busiest Royal Mail has been in its 500 year history , but they haven't got the staff numbers to operate properly

[Jahpostie]

Fairly normal since covid I'm afraid. Mgt don't care as long as the Tracked are done. You'll get used to the shafting as a reserve, until it's not funny anymore and then you'll leave if you have any sense. I did.

[max49]

First thing is try not to worry, resourcing is the manager's problem, ask the manager what he/she wants you to do, have in mind a time you are prepared to work to if you are intending on going over your finish time and tell this to your manager. It may be wise to have a colleague to witness the conversation, so there is no problem with what you said and what the manager said. Unfortunately it is a common problem now with a lack of resourcing and some managers seem to put upon newbies.

[scoobydo79]

Par for the course

[Wolf91]

Only 2 loops took back? Sounds like you did way more than enough to me.
Management should not be making you do a double duty on your own lmao. Regardless.
It’s not your fault the business is trying to cut everything to the bone and continue with understaffed offices up and down the country.
We have our own vans in my office and people bring stuff back on single duties unless it’s doable.
Best thing to do is stand up to management and let them know you won’t be completing beforehand. Don’t try and be a hero, they will just s**t on you everyday and think they can get away with it.
You did way more than enough. That should be the end of it.

[TopperGas]

Only 2 loops took back?

Sounds like you did way more than enough to me.

Management should not be making you do a double duty on your own lmao. Regardless.
It’s not your fault the business is trying to cut everything to the bone and continue with understaffed offices up and down the country.
We have our own vans in my office and people bring stuff back on single duties unless it’s doable.
Best thing to do is stand up to management and let them know you won’t be completing beforehand. Don’t try and be a hero, they will just s**t on you everyday and think they can get away with it.
You did way more than enough. That should be the end of it.

and the manager will be patting himself on the back, as the bulk of that duty has been cleared today but only had pay one OPG's wages to do it and not even pay them any o/t!!

[norris9]

The whole 'Delay of Mail' threat is a scam.

You have a contract you signed to say you finish at a set time.

How can they dismiss anyone for delay of mail when you have a right to finish on your time..... they surely can't. Would not stand up in court. They can't force you to work over your time.

They delay mail every day by failing to get new staff in. They delay multiple walks. Then expect us to come in the day after our day off and go out past our contracted hours for an extra hour+ pay. Saving themselves £80+ per walk each time they do this. Whilst paying us an extra £10 to £20 for the stress, wear and tear and exhaustion.

So they are saving a net ~£60 each day per walk for delaying mail due to not hiring staff.

The revision will make walks too big and more people will leave, the retainment of staff will continue to be awful and the costs of recruitment and training and uniform will be through the roof. When instead they could make the job doable in our time, enjoyable and retain happy staff for years.

[Norfolk 'N' Chance]

So they are saving a net ~£60 each day per walk for delaying mail due to not hiring staff.

The revision will make walks too big and more people will leave, the retainment of staff will continue to be awful and the costs of recruitment and training and uniform will be through the roof. When instead they could make the job doable in our time, enjoyable and retain happy staff for years.

Your comments above really made me think and as was sated in a previous thread some weeks ago, the current attrition rate was quoted as circa 190 staff per wek across the business. That made me wonder if there are any bean counting staff that are actually measuring the true cost of this and not only the numbers? I would be very interested in seeing some sort of calculation for staff turnover, and annually it must be several millions of pounds.

Although im more familiar with Maslow's hierachcy of needs model, I can recall that another psychologist adadpted Maslows original needs model and applied it to staff engagement/retention. Unfortunately I cant recall the name of who it was now, and ill have to look it up again after this post.

However from memory it was something like; most basic needs are find a job/earn money. There were then several intermediate needs such as finding the workplace and environment pleasant and the work having some meaning, feeling valued/contributing and finally at the top level (Maslows "Self Actualisation") is about being proud to be associated with the company and having a true sense of achievement/deriving work satisfaction.

Im sure that many off of reading this are laughing and it was not my intention to make you choke and spit out your morning coffee. Im merely sharing my memories of a particular management theory model. How well it would map to some DO's could be a very interesting piece of work for a graduates thesis!

The point being that, with what is evidently going on within the business right now, who if anyone is looking at the data and forming some sort of strategy and action plan to redress this mismatch, and what is the cost? And that brings me back to the point that the poster above made, that staff retention is just good business sense on every level. Plus it benefits the poor old customer.

I have no idea on the total costs on what recruiting, hiring, coaching/training, the time it takes starters to get up to speed/full productivity and then subsequently loosing a staff member is. But I'd hazard a guess that its around 4 -6 times the cost of retaining a trained productive person. I feel that these are probably the easier costs to measure/calculate but theres a whole raft of less tangible losses to consider as well;

You only need to look on this forum to see the lower morale of staff. (almost impossible to cost). Similarly new people constantly joining and leaving teams/workplaces has impacts as staff have to keep going through the process of getting to know new starters. In some cases this will have a knock on to ill health, stress and sickness in other staff (again difficult to cost/attribute, but nonetheless very real).

I know theres a lot of dislike for DOMS on here, but having been a manager myself in a previous life (apologies), I do feel sorry for them too as all this has a big impact on how effectively they can manage. Constant staff change is at best only going to hamper the revision roll out and the actions that they are responsible for delivering at their local level. Plus constant recruiting must be a drain of managers’ time and effort.

By all means shoot me down and this is just a personal perspective. However I thought I'd like to share with you.

For anyone thats interested, its my first day at the DO tomorrow (via agency), so moving forward I'll be able to see more and feel first hand, all that I have read and learnt out here. Dont worry Im going to play dumb and just say yes and no until i know the lay of the land as im very aware of the need to keep my mouth shut and be thought to be a fool, rather than open my mouth and prove myself to be one!

Regards

Norfolk 'N' Chance

[mickeymacca]

Hi Norfolk, I liked your post.

The whole ethos of the management strategy is firefighting on a daily basis, not the DOMS fault necessarily, everything is so short term, and when you consider the onus on us to organise our holiday leave over a year in advance you'd think there would be a more long term approach. For sure sick leave and staff on light duties etc affect resourcing plans but there doesn't ever appear to be any contingency, just panic. And this probably leads to some staff leaving due to poor management decisions, when they otherwise quite like the job. And the constant recruitment policy of just hiring staff on part time hours is just plain daft now, it dissuades those looking for full time hours from applying, and pisses of those who do join but are immediately pressured to do more hours.......crackers.....

regards

[Dorset Plodder]

So what I'm asking is it normal for there to be no cover for days off? It's been 3 days now of me on my own on a 2 person duty

Welome to the Mad House mate. I think you've been managing very well so far. However as commented on it's not your job to make the system work. If you're meant to be on a Van Share and your DOM doesn't put someone else in that van with you it's not your responsibility to cover the short fall.

This type of problem is prevalent through out the business, and has become worse over the last year or so. Initialy it was dealt with by managers relying on the "Good Will" of the Posties (which basically meant experienced Posties felt bad about letting down the customers and did a lot more than they should have done to get all the mail cleared). Rightly or wrongly this normally works for a short time (and has become a "Bad" Management Tool for RM managers). but eventually everyone just gets pissed off with the situation and says, "Enough is enough", then the Managers start complaining because their staff are getting stroppy and uncooperative.

You're still in the "Honeymoon Phase" or your employment when you're still trying to please your manager and show him what a good Postie you are (No Offence meant). This doesn't work mate. No matter what you do to impress the DOM they will just take you for granted and ironically when you look for some pay back on your "Good Will" it will come to nothing. If they're a really Bad Manager it will act against you because they'll think, "I can mess that guy around because he never complains and delivers everything I give him" It's wrong but it happens.

With our Van Shares if one partner doesn't turn up we don't expect the other guy to deliver both halves. He'll take the van out with his half and perhaps the Tracked and Specials for the other half. Don't get stressed and make yourself ill over this situation just explain to the DOM that you don't mind a "Reasonable" ammount of Over Time but you haven't got the time do everything they expect of you. You need help. If they get stroppy just remind them you've got a finishing time and if they like you can be back in the office clocking off at that time. Good Luck Next Week.

[Jahpostie]

So what I'm asking is it normal for there to be no cover for days off? It's been 3 days now of me on my own on a 2 person duty

Welome to the Mad House mate. I think you've been managing very well so far. However as commented on it's not your job to make the system work. If you're meant to be on a Van Share and your DOM doesn't put someone else in that van with you it's not your responsibility to cover the short fall.

This type of problem is prevalent through out the business, and has become worse over the last year or so. Initialy it was dealt with by managers relying on the "Good Will" of the Posties (which basically meant experienced Posties felt bad about letting down the customers and did a lot more than they should have done to get all the mail cleared). Rightly or wrongly this normally works for a short time (and has become a "Bad" Management Tool for RM managers). but eventually everyone just gets pissed off with the situation and says, "Enough is enough", then the Managers start complaining because their staff are getting stroppy and uncooperative.

You're still in the "Honeymoon Phase" or your employment when you're still trying to please your manager and show him what a good Postie you are (No Offence meant). This doesn't work mate. No matter what you do to impress the DOM they will just take you for granted and ironically when you look for some pay back on your "Good Will" it will come to nothing. If they're a really Bad Manager it will act against you because they'll think, "I can mess that guy around because he never complains and delivers everything I give him" It's wrong but it happens.

With our Van Shares if one partner doesn't turn up we don't expect the other guy to deliver both halves. He'll take the van out with his half and perhaps the Tracked and Specials for the other half. Don't get stressed and make yourself ill over this situation just explain to the DOM that you don't mind a "Reasonable" ammount of Over Time but you haven't got the time do everything they expect of you. You need help. If they get stroppy just remind them you've got a finishing time and if they like you can be back in the office clocking off at that time. Good Luck Next Week.

In our place you were only expected to do the parcels across both walks but concentrate on Tracked, specials and large. Smaller none tracked could be returned if busy and would take you over time. Sounds like some are being shafted.

[POSTMAN]

What Super Simon needs to do after groveling up to the marrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrket in a couple of weeks is to sack the f***ing lot of those who for the past few years have been making decisions.

They have ruined this firm, for years that have not had a clue with what to do and have only worried about budgets and the share price.

At one time for Christ's sake, we had a recruitment freeze.

Go back over the years with news stories on here they have wasted Billions on s**t, Billions.

Man up Simom ffs, if you really do care!

[fb1969]

I think its more likely that he'll just blame us pesky posties for being lazy.

We all know the truth but Super Si doesn't want to believe us.

[Nodocket1]

I wouldn't worry too much.

I am in the same boat, every day we bring stuff back until just recently when I now know not to take it in the first place as I know how long it will take roughly.

We only manage to do one walk plus the tracked specials on the other walk.

Walks are far far too big and one gets double the parcels.

Impossible to do both, work to time that's it.