Interviews with managers

[thebeast]

During interviews with managers, are you able to ask for minutes to be taken or can you record it? I am sure some of the things they come out with are not right or legal..

[norbet colon]

During interviews with managers, are you able to ask for minutes to be taken or can you record it? I am sure some of the things they come out with are not right or legal..

they tend to be very "creative " with minutes & notes

[POSTMAN]

You should ALWAYS take someone in with you pref a rep but if not a colleague,despite what management say.
As for minutes i would not of thought you jotting down stuff and get him/her to read and sign it afterwards would be a problem.
Unless they have summin to hide of course.

[mailman71]

you should always go in with a rep to keep yourself right

[TrueBlueTerrier]

During interviews with managers, are you able to ask for minutes to be taken or can you record it? I am sure some of the things they come out with are not right or legal..

Recording disciplinary meetings

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/ ... tings.html

We have received a letter from an employee asking if he can tape record the disciplinary meeting. Must we comply with his request?

We recently suspended an employee who was accused of bullying another member of staff. We carried out the necessary investigations and then sent the accused employee a letter requesting him to attend a disciplinary meeting. However, we have now received a letter from the employee asking if he can tape record the meeting. Must we comply with his request?

There is no statutory obligation on any employer to permit an employee to tape record disciplinary hearings.

Therefore, unless the company disciplinary procedure sets out a right for employees to tape record hearings (and such a provision is not common), there is no obligation to agree to the employee's request.

Permitting employees to tape record hearings can be problematic but good practice dictates that the employer should arrange for notes to be taken at the hearing. You could, therefore, advise the employee that he will be provided with a copy of the notes after the hearing. The employee and his companion are also free to take notes during the hearing.

Under the statutory disciplinary and dismissal procedures, the employee has a right to be accompanied at a disciplinary meeting by a trade union representative or a colleague.

The role of the companion is, however, limited. The companion is permitted to address the disciplinary or grievance hearing (but notto answer questions on behalf of the employee), and to confer with the worker during the hearing.

Unless the company's policy states otherwise, the employee is not permitted to take a solicitor along to such meetings.

The Acas Code of Practice states that "it is good practice to allow the companion to participate as fully as possible in the hearing, including asking witnesses questions". This goes further than the employer's legal obligations in this respect.

Sinead Donnelly, solicitor, employment, DWF

Therefore IMHO another law that works for the bosses but not the workers

[mailsort6]

During interviews with managers, are you able to ask for minutes to be taken or can you record it? I am sure some of the things they come out with are not right or legal..

You are allowed to take notes or minutes (and always take notes at any interview with a manager this is your evidence of what was said and when). However, if you are going to record the interview you have to ask for the interviewee/s premission.

[saru]

Every interview I've had, when the notes are sent through, there are always errors. Not only that, but the general standard of grammar, spelling & punctuation leave a lot to be desired.

[norbet colon]

Every interview I've had, when the notes are sent through, there are always errors. Not only that, but the general standard of grammar, spelling & punctuation leave a lot to be desired.

There's a shift manager who is famous for the 5 Bungles of mail . Microsoft Word has a spell checker , use it . It's thought to be terrible with grammer , syntax , puctuation etc , however there are programmes that will integrate with MS Word , it's cheaper than paying for a proof reader to save embrassment or p***ing somebody off .

www.whitesmoke.com

There's all the "progressive " ideas in education , phonetics was too old fashioned and a blind eye was turned to poor grammer and punctuation as it hindered self expression !

When I trained from scratch on computers , some of the tutors and the Silver Surfers had trained on old Invicta Typewriters with heavy keys : and had to type very fast without errors with a covered keyboard . If there was spelling, punctuation or grammatical errors at work , they'd be in front of some old dragon in a twin set & pearls who probably wore brogues & shaved twice a day , they were also expected to correct errors for their managers .

It's the old "joke" -"Squad helps dog bite victim " . The standard has gone down with text and internet usage . If anything we're sloppy in this country , the Yanks are sticklers for punctuation .

I wholeheartedly agree with taking notes and having witnesses , Managers will only deny things , , it's better that RM look amateurish down the line ? ?, as inferences can be drawn .There's things that'll record which can discreetly fit in a pocket . A lad from Nottingham on Hellfail did that and made sure they were put on the computer's harddrive and backed up to CD .

[Rowdy]

There was an incident during the miners strike during the 80's where after a return to work a miner found himself in front of the management for alleged misconduct on the picket line. The management didn't really have a case so they tried to fit him up saying he had been abusive, used foul language and had threatened them during the interview. At the conduct meeting to answer the charges he pulled out a tape recorder and played back the entire previous meeting and low and behold at no point did he display any of the behaviour that was alleged against him. I'm sure there are managers in Royal Mail who are capable of this kind of fit up so I would always take someone with me and record it on paper or tape if you can.

[norbet colon]

There was an incident during the miners strike during the 80's where after a return to work a miner found himself in front of the management for alleged misconduct on the picket line. The management didn't really have a case so they tried to fit him up saying he had been abusive, used foul language and had threatened them during the interview. At the conduct meeting to answer the charges he pulled out a tape recorder and played back the entire previous meeting and low and behold at no point did he display any of the behavior that was alleged against him. I'm sure there are managers in Royal Mail who are capable of this kind of fit up so I would always take someone with me and record it on paper or tape if you can.

In that case the worker got lucky but the tape is inadmissible in a court of law or tribunal as it was taken without the parties full consent the NCB could have proceeded against the individual on that basis alone with his recording not even being heard! But they (NCB) were scared, RM will not be! If any member tries it RM will make them pay. Even my own rep does not use all the tools at the CWUs disposal properly (and I consider him a good rep!) We as workers need to get savvy and use what we have to OUR best advantage ( I myself am learning after the fact when it is too late but you better believe as i uncover a fact or rule i will make it known to my own side.) and not give the employer even more ammunition against us, recordings will only cost us rather than the employer because if they get it wrong it will be Oh sorry, but if we or our reps get it wrong then as workers we will LOSE our jobs.
A smart worker and rep will use the tools provided and win because we are right and they are wrong and we put in the leg work dot each sentence and cross each T because we care about our futures. They will lose because they are inept lazy and scared!

Royal Mail will twist everything round and assume the moral highground and make staff out to be underhand to wriggle out of something . It's hypocritical considering but it happens . If I'd non-consensual evidence , I'd use it as the wild card under advice from a solictor in a ET if RM were denying everything , stonewalling etc to prove something.

A manager working for another sector on the railway filmed a guard in the drivers front cab when on annual leave . The railway wanted the guard sacked but the RMT stated video evidence was inadmissable .

The Railway sacked that guard six weeks later for that unauthorised entrance offence , the view was some people never learn and he deserved it . There was a very paranoid culture , openly hostile and vindictive managers , staff grassing each other up for petty offences etc , full of s**** hawks . The idea was to blow petty offences out of all perspective and proportion to instill discipline?! and soften people up and knock the stuffing out of them for privatisation .
So watch out ! This is how big Al likes it -FUD ( Fear Uncertainity & Doubt )

[POSTMAN]

Recording disciplinary meetings

Made a tongue in cheek remark to the missus a while back (She has a memory like an elephant) and guess what i got for xmas

[andy2007]

There was an incident during the miners strike during the 80's where after a return to work a miner found himself in front of the management for alleged misconduct on the picket line. The management didn't really have a case so they tried to fit him up saying he had been abusive, used foul language and had threatened them during the interview. At the conduct meeting to answer the charges he pulled out a tape recorder and played back the entire previous meeting and low and behold at no point did he display any of the behavior that was alleged against him. I'm sure there are managers in Royal Mail who are capable of this kind of fit up so I would always take someone with me and record it on paper or tape if you can.

In that case the worker got lucky but the tape is inadmissible in a court of law or tribunal as it was taken without the parties full consent the NCB could have proceeded against the individual on that basis alone with his recording not even being heard! But they (NCB) were scared, RM will not be! If any member tries it RM will make them pay. Even my own rep does not use all the tools at the CWUs disposal properly (and I consider him a good rep!) We as workers need to get savvy and use what we have to OUR best advantage ( I myself am learning after the fact when it is too late but you better believe as i uncover a fact or rule i will make it known to my own side.) and not give the employer even more ammunition against us, recordings will only cost us rather than the employer because if they get it wrong it will be Oh sorry, but if we or our reps get it wrong then as workers we will LOSE our jobs.
A smart worker and rep will use the tools provided and win because we are right and they are wrong and we put in the leg work dot each sentence and cross each T because we care about our futures. They will lose because they are inept lazy and scared!

Royal Mail will twist everything round and assume the moral highground and make staff out to be underhand to wriggle out of something . It's hypocritical considering but it happens . If I'd non-consensual evidence , I'd use it as the wild card under advice from a solictor in a ET if RM were denying everything , stonewalling etc to prove something.

A manager working for another sector on the railway filmed a guard in the drivers front cab when on annual leave . The railway wanted the guard sacked but the RMT stated video evidence was inadmissable .

The Railway sacked that guard six weeks later for that unauthorised entrance offence , the view was some people never learn and he deserved it . There was a very paranoid culture , openly hostile and vindictive managers , staff grassing each other up for petty offences etc , full of s**** hawks . The idea was to blow petty offences out of all perspective and proportion to instill discipline?! and soften people up and knock the stuffing out of them for privatisation .
So watch out ! This is how big Al likes it -FUD ( Fear Uncertainity & Doubt )

Look i am sorry for being thick (i aint a lawer and i only have 2 CSEs but are we saying its OK for us to break rules and tape or record without permision and use it against the employer and expect it to used as evidence but not the employer to do the same? At the mo we can take a rep in and make sure all that was said is recorded for our side and theirs but because they send only one in thats two against one they also send in either the newbies or the most aggresive both are good for us, for me the problem lies with the education of our hard pressed reps. The CWU should be educating reps in at least four aspects of employment law practices and how to fight and defend them, including (1) Health and safety. (2) Local negotiaions. (3) Employment law. (4) National negotiations, so yes this would need at least four types of rep. We could group some of the smaller offices together until as a group they had say 150-200 people collectivly to make such a system work but we as workers would reap the rewards. Even under the poor system we have now we could win many more than we lose with better CWU education but if the CWU put some real cash and support into such education then our members would not keep getting shafted. Recording is not the way to go, education is, we can beat them at their own game with a few smart moves with ours and their own rule book.

You're spot on. We can't go around making secret recordings, and expect them to be admissable. The Laws are there for a reason. Recordings can be tampered with, taken out of context, etc..

Minutes signed by everyone present are perfectly adequate.

I don't see why we would have to group smaller offices together though. We already have seperate H&S reps. Local Reps could have the Local Negotiations and Employment Law sections. They wouldn't need training in National Negotiations, as we already have Reps in place to do that.

[borderscot]

If you taped a meeting without perxission you could not use it as evidence but you could use it to check what has been said and by whom, where upon you could dispute the notes you have received exactly.

[billyhayes]

As a side note, in the Crown Office where I work, we had someone who was exposing some lies and general-s**t stirring by our managers, a few years back. They were just saying stuff that everyone knew wasn't true, (about individual sales targets etc etc, what else!?), basically being heavy handed little wonkas.
Anyway, they called them into the office to try to put the s**t up 'em and the clerk pulled out a dictaphone put it on the table without saying anything, didn't start recording mind, and sat there and waited. After a few seconds of the two chunts looking at each other and then back to the recorder one said...

"There's been a big misunderstanding, it's not us, it's OUR managers telling us what to say. That's the end of of it now. Go back to as we were before."!!!

I guarantee the clerk would have got an ear bending, if they hadn't pulled that out of their pocket.

Amazing how managers have a poo when you play that card even if you dont intend to record the conversation.


Minutes? I s**t 'em...

[andy2007]

Linkinpark, I wasn't objecting to Offices which don't already have Reps from grouping together. That would in fact be a great idea.

What I was objecting to. Was the idea of grouping them together just to make your idea for better trained Reps work. Wherever there are people willing to represent their Office, they could be given exactly the type of training that you suggest.

H&S Reps already go on courses from time to time to keep them up to date. So there is already a precedent which could be used in a request for better training for ALL Reps.