Sick leave over bank holiday?

strangler · Post by **strangler** » 21 Dec 2007, 22:32

If you are on sick leave and that period (whatever the length) covers for example, xmas day and boxing day, when you return to work are those bank holiday days (in this example 2 days) credited back to your annual leave entitlement?
Just wondered if this was the case as if you happen to be sick and that period includes any of your normal annual leave then you get that annual leave credited back to you.
So, any difference in the way these 2 examples are treated??

Post by **baldrick** » 21 Dec 2007, 22:40

deleted in deference to next post!

Post by **stephen500** » 23 Dec 2007, 10:08

You ARE NOT credited with days for bank holidays while sick.
If you were on A/L then you would be.

Post by **Carnoustie** » 28 Dec 2007, 16:59

I was told this today and you are correct in what you say.

Personally, I cannot see the logic, though.

1. You didn't have your holiday (aka annual leave) because you were ill, so we'll give you your holiday days back.
2. You didn't have your Bank Holidays because you were ill, but we won't give you your holiday days back.

Spot the difference !

Scrooge is alive and well

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 28 Dec 2007, 17:07

Playing devils advocate here - It could be based on the fact that if you are on annual leave this is an entitlement, whereas if you are off sick, although it is a right there is no entitlement to actual periods of sick leave.

Post by **Carnoustie** » 28 Dec 2007, 17:45

Playing 'God's Advocate', aren't we similarly entitled to time off on Public Holidays ? Surely, if you're sick during a period of holiday to which you are entitled, you should get those holidays back. As I said, Royal Mail's logic is flawed and unreasonable. Shouldn't we get those days back irrespective of the type of 'leave' period ???

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 28 Dec 2007, 18:34

Good point:

However I have been googling to try and get a legal answer but there isn't one. However, most sites I visited had something along these lines.

if you are off sick on a public holiday, you won't get your time back. If the day off in lieu is in place of the public holiday and you're off sick then you won't get that time back either.

I am guessing this is in their contracts and its probably the same with RM.

pinstripe · Post by **pinstripe** » 30 Dec 2007, 09:33

If you are off sick then
1. You've already had the day off work and
2. You've already been paid for having the day off work. So
3. They're not going give you an additional day off in lieu.
It might not seem fair, but there is no way any employer would pay you full sick pay and give you a day in lieu as well, thereby paying you twice for not being at work on a bank holiday. IMHO

As has been said, holidays are an entitlement, sick pay is a right. There is a difference.

Post by **Carnoustie** » 30 Dec 2007, 10:13

pinstripe wrote:It might not seem fair, but there is no way any employer would pay you full sick pay and give you a day in lieu as well, thereby paying you twice for not being at work on a bank holiday. IMHO

As has been said, holidays are an entitlement, sick pay is a right. There is a difference.

I see your point, but....

If you're unlucky enough to fall ill just before a week's annual leave, and are off sick during that week's leave, you DO get the holiday days back. So you would therefore have been paid full sick pay and been given the days in lieu as well.

What I am saying is RM's attitude is not consistent.

If their attitude in all cases was a) 'tough sh!t, you were ill so you've had your time off' I could understand it, even though I would consider it outrageous.

If their attitude in all cases was b) 'it's not your fault you got ill, so we'll give you your days back' I could understand that approach also.

What I can NOT understand is applying a) to bank holidays (to which we are entitled) and b) to annual leave (to which are entitled). Just imagine the uproar if they let you have bank holidays back should you be off sick, but deemed you to have used your annual leave when sick. Just as wrong and just as inconsistent.

pinstripe · Post by **pinstripe** » 30 Dec 2007, 13:41

Carnoustie wrote:
pinstripe wrote:It might not seem fair, but there is no way any employer would pay you full sick pay and give you a day in lieu as well, thereby paying you twice for not being at work on a bank holiday. IMHO

As has been said, holidays are an entitlement, sick pay is a right. There is a difference.
I see your point, but....

If you're unlucky enough to fall ill just before a week's annual leave, and are off sick during that week's leave, you DO get the holiday days back. So you would therefore have been paid full sick pay and been given the days in lieu as well.

What I am saying is RM's attitude is not consistent.

If their attitude in all cases was a) 'tough sh!t, you were ill so you've had your time off' I could understand it, even though I would consider it outrageous.

If their attitude in all cases was b) 'it's not your fault you got ill, so we'll give you your days back' I could understand that approach also.

What I can NOT understand is applying a) to bank holidays (to which we are entitled) and b) to annual leave (to which are entitled). Just imagine the uproar if they let you have bank holidays back should you be off sick, but deemed you to have used your annual leave when sick. Just as wrong and just as inconsistent.

Agree, the only thing that RM do consistently is screw us over. They should clarify this, but if they do I think they'll make any changes work in their favour. ie, no payment for bank holidays if you are on leave or if you are sick, or if it's your day off, or if you've been on strike, or if the DOM doesn't like you, or if Leighton and Crozier want a bigger bonus.
The concept of fairness is now a distant memory in RM.