Hundreds lose job in British Gas contracts row

[qwerty2]

Hundreds lose job in British Gas contracts row
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56746656
Bet RM try this to get rid of non drivers

[Acca Dacca]

No chance

Changing hours or workload isnt the same as forcing people to sign a contract doing something they dont have the skills to do - even if wanted to sign the new contract if a non driver cant drive, they cant drive.

That British Gas move was scummy as though - but they should have stuck together. Feel for the guys who didnt give in.

[Woody Guthrie]

Sign the petition.

Make fire and rehire illegal.

https://tinyurl.com/yjonexr9

As a side note if Royal Mail were to go down this route it would be nothing to do with non drivers and everything to do with removing all kinds of allowances from SA to delivery supplement, paid breaks, sick pay and enhanced holidays. They wouldn't be interested in a minor issue like non drivers it would be the full nuclear option.

[SpacePhoenix]

Sign the petition.

Make fire and rehire illegal.

https://tinyurl.com/yjonexr9

As a side note if Royal Mail were to go down this route it would be nothing to do with non drivers and everything to do with removing all kinds of allowances from SA to delivery supplement, paid breaks, sick pay and enhanced holidays. They wouldn't be interested in a minor issue like non drivers it would be the full nuclear option.

If RM were to go down that route, my gut feeling is that paid breaks would be gone, along will ALL allowances and they'd insist on ALL delivery staff being able to drive. They wouldn't then need to worry about who could drive as they could then have anyone do any walk

[Schiff]

I would suggest that all trade unionists should boycott any British Gas product or service from now on.

[Woody Guthrie]

I would suggest that all trade unionists should boycott any British Gas product or service from now on.

I would go even further.
British Gas are a very popular pension investment share.
I would petition the trustees of the pension fund (especially the CWU pension) to divest from a company that treats its workers with such contempt.

[Acca Dacca]

Sign the petition.

Make fire and rehire illegal.

https://tinyurl.com/yjonexr9

As a side note if Royal Mail were to go down this route it would be nothing to do with non drivers and everything to do with removing all kinds of allowances from SA to delivery supplement, paid breaks, sick pay and enhanced holidays. They wouldn't be interested in a minor issue like non drivers it would be the full nuclear option.

If RM were to go down that route, my gut feeling is that paid breaks would be gone, along will ALL allowances and they'd insist on ALL delivery staff being able to drive. They wouldn't then need to worry about who could drive as they could then have anyone do any walk

You really have it in for non-drivers

[SpacePhoenix]

Sign the petition.

Make fire and rehire illegal.

https://tinyurl.com/yjonexr9

As a side note if Royal Mail were to go down this route it would be nothing to do with non drivers and everything to do with removing all kinds of allowances from SA to delivery supplement, paid breaks, sick pay and enhanced holidays. They wouldn't be interested in a minor issue like non drivers it would be the full nuclear option.

If RM were to go down that route, my gut feeling is that paid breaks would be gone, along will ALL allowances and they'd insist on ALL delivery staff being able to drive. They wouldn't then need to worry about who could drive as they could then have anyone do any walk

You really have it in for non-drivers

Do you honestly think that RM wouldn't insist on it for all DO staff if they went down the fire & hire route?

[Acca Dacca]

Sign the petition.

Make fire and rehire illegal.

https://tinyurl.com/yjonexr9

As a side note if Royal Mail were to go down this route it would be nothing to do with non drivers and everything to do with removing all kinds of allowances from SA to delivery supplement, paid breaks, sick pay and enhanced holidays. They wouldn't be interested in a minor issue like non drivers it would be the full nuclear option.

If RM were to go down that route, my gut feeling is that paid breaks would be gone, along will ALL allowances and they'd insist on ALL delivery staff being able to drive. They wouldn't then need to worry about who could drive as they could then have anyone do any walk

You really have it in for non-drivers

Do you honestly think that RM wouldn't insist on it for all DO staff if they went down the fire & hire route?

Yes

For the reasons I gave above

[Woody Guthrie]

Sign the petition.

Make fire and rehire illegal.

https://tinyurl.com/yjonexr9

As a side note if Royal Mail were to go down this route it would be nothing to do with non drivers and everything to do with removing all kinds of allowances from SA to delivery supplement, paid breaks, sick pay and enhanced holidays. They wouldn't be interested in a minor issue like non drivers it would be the full nuclear option.

If RM were to go down that route, my gut feeling is that paid breaks would be gone, along will ALL allowances and they'd insist on ALL delivery staff being able to drive. They wouldn't then need to worry about who could drive as they could then have anyone do any walk

You really have it in for non-drivers

Do you honestly think that RM wouldn't insist on it for all DO staff if they went down the fire & hire route?

You're obsessed with it.
RM are not.
They know that eventually as the potential roles reduce for non drivers they will force most of them out of the business naturally and more important cheaply.

[Cucumber]

Sign the petition.

Make fire and rehire illegal.

https://tinyurl.com/yjonexr9

As a side note if Royal Mail were to go down this route it would be nothing to do with non drivers and everything to do with removing all kinds of allowances from SA to delivery supplement, paid breaks, sick pay and enhanced holidays. They wouldn't be interested in a minor issue like non drivers it would be the full nuclear option.

If RM were to go down that route, my gut feeling is that paid breaks would be gone, along will ALL allowances and they'd insist on ALL delivery staff being able to drive. They wouldn't then need to worry about who could drive as they could then have anyone do any walk

You really have it in for non-drivers

Do you honestly think that RM wouldn't insist on it for all DO staff if they went down the fire & hire route?

You're obsessed with it.
RM are not.
They know that eventually as the potential roles reduce for non drivers they will force most of them out of the business naturally and more important cheaply.

Isn't that the same thing that SP is saying though? I thought (and hoped) that due to being a protected group there will always be a job for people who don't drive? On the subject of potential roles reducing - how can that be happening when we are planning revisions (apparently) around shared vans again. That leaves 40-45% of jobs alone that non driving staff can do in an office that has 10% rurals etc. Or are we talking 5-10 years down the line? If thats the case then there is still a huge number of staff affected as there will be plenty of people at the moment, decades away from retirement that joined 15 or so years ago. In your view, longterm Woody, would it be prudent for someone to consider driving for RM if they don't already?

[Woody Guthrie]

Isn't that the same thing that SP is saying though?

No.
SP is obsessed by the idea that Royal Mail will actively get rid of non-drivers either by redundancy or his new idea fire and rehire.
I believe they'll just gradually replace non-driving leavers with drivers as they've been doing for 15years.

In your view, longterm Woody, would it be prudent for someone to consider driving for RM if they don't already?

Yes.
Not because you'll be forced out of a job because you won't but because it opens up a lot more possible roles and choice within the business.

We are moving away from letters and into parcels in a big way, I doubt van sharing in its present form will be sustainable in the long term, non-drivers will probably eventually only be delivering letters and small parcels that can fit in a frame, unlikely to be the same duty every day and probably using some type of trolley and replenishment system. These will be long duties, I wouldn't fancy it.

[HTPostman]

We are moving away from letters and into parcels in a big way, I doubt van sharing in its present form will be sustainable in the long term, non-drivers will probably eventually only be delivering letters and small parcels that can fit in a frame, unlikely to be the same duty every day and probably using some type of trolley and replenishment system. These will be long duties, I wouldn't fancy it.

That’s how I see it too.

For example, on average here a shared/park and loop duty has 7 bags each (14 bags total). If the walker takes a good chunk of those bags but only does letters and things that will go through letterboxes suddenly he can take more - so a bag that currently has 3 bundles and 10 parcels could easily become 2 bags worth with just 6 bundles, no parcels. More if done with a trolley (as we should be doing anyway).

The driver then does everything above letterbox size, does any difficult calls (eg really long drives, farms), does the tracker, specials and empties the boxes. If RM get their act together (Special Delivery stays at 4pm for example) in theory they could follow other couriers and give time slots and show customers what number they are in the parcel queue. Customer collections also become slightly more attractive for the customer too as they can see approximately what time it will be collected.

To me that makes much more sense - sure the walker is doing a hell of a lot of walking but they are no longer having to knock every 15 houses, they just crack on. Meanwhile the driver isn’t having to faff about doing bags then doing oversized then having to wait for the walker, struggling to remember everything. They can follow a set route and only have to deviate to reload the walker halfway round. Loading and organising the van becomes easier too.

Makes much more sense than having 2 people of different abilities trying to do park and loop or maybe it’s just me being silly.

[postiepete2]

We are moving away from letters and into parcels in a big way, I doubt van sharing in its present form will be sustainable in the long term, non-drivers will probably eventually only be delivering letters and small parcels that can fit in a frame, unlikely to be the same duty every day and probably using some type of trolley and replenishment system. These will be long duties, I wouldn't fancy it.

That’s how I see it too.

For example, on average here a shared/park and loop duty has 7 bags each (14 bags total). If the walker takes a good chunk of those bags but only does letters and things that will go through letterboxes suddenly he can take more - so a bag that currently has 3 bundles and 10 parcels could easily become 2 bags worth with just 6 bundles, no parcels. More if done with a trolley (as we should be doing anyway).

The driver then does everything above letterbox size, does any difficult calls (eg really long drives, farms), does the tracker, specials and empties the boxes. If RM get their act together (Special Delivery stays at 4pm for example) in theory they could follow other couriers and give time slots and show customers what number they are in the parcel queue. Customer collections also become slightly more attractive for the customer too as they can see approximately what time it will be collected.

To me that makes much more sense - sure the walker is doing a hell of a lot of walking but they are no longer having to knock every 15 houses, they just crack on. Meanwhile the driver isn’t having to faff about doing bags then doing oversized then having to wait for the walker, struggling to remember everything. They can follow a set route and only have to deviate to reload the walker halfway round. Loading and organising the van becomes easier too.

Makes much more sense than having 2 people of different abilities trying to do park and loop or maybe it’s just me being silly.

this is a good idea - send this suggestion to the bigwigs at RM they might send you a free pen

[DGH]

For example, on average here a shared/park and loop duty has 7 bags each (14 bags total). If the walker takes a good chunk of those bags but only does letters and things that will go through letterboxes suddenly he can take more - so a bag that currently has 3 bundles and 10 parcels could easily become 2 bags worth with just 6 bundles, no parcels. More if done with a trolley (as we should be doing anyway).

The driver then does everything above letterbox size, does any difficult calls (eg really long drives, farms), does the tracker, specials and empties the boxes. If RM get their act together (Special Delivery stays at 4pm for example) in theory they could follow other couriers and give time slots and show customers what number they are in the parcel queue. Customer collections also become slightly more attractive for the customer too as they can see approximately what time it will be collected.

To me that makes much more sense - sure the walker is doing a hell of a lot of walking but they are no longer having to knock every 15 houses, they just crack on. Meanwhile the driver isn’t having to faff about doing bags then doing oversized then having to wait for the walker, struggling to remember everything. They can follow a set route and only have to deviate to reload the walker halfway round. Loading and organising the van becomes easier too.

Makes much more sense than having 2 people of different abilities trying to do park and loop or maybe it’s just me being silly.

At least three 'shared van' duties in my office already do this (say doing 8 bags of 12 or 9 of 14). It's much easier for both people (assuming the walker doesn't mind the extra walking). It does mean you have to know how to tie the duty up to avoid the walker doing a lot of dead walking, and it wouldn't work on all our shared van duties, but I much prefer it (as the walker).