Furlough part 2 : There are no plans to reintroduce a furlough scheme at this time

Post by **POSTMAN** » 05 Nov 2020, 17:59

Thank you for your email.

We are currently receiving a lot of emails relating to the recent government announcement about vulnerable / extremely clinically vulnerable people.

The current position from Royal Mail is as follows:

Employees who are considered vulnerable (e.g. the over 70s, pregnant women) should work from home where possible. Where it's not possible to work from home, they should attend for work as normal, in line with the government guidelines.

Employees who have received a letter / email from the government or NHS advising that they are extremely clinically vulnerable should work from home where possible. Where it's not possible, they are entitled to sick pay in line with the normal Royal Mail sick pay limits. Where sick pay has been exhausted, SSP may be paid (subject to eligibility) in line with government guidelines.

Employees who live with someone who is considered vulnerable / extremely clinically vulnerable should attend for work as normal, in line with the government guidelines. There is currently no advice which suggests that individuals who live with a vulnerable / extremely vulnerable person should not attend work.

There are no plans to reintroduce a furlough scheme at this time for any of the groups mentioned above.

yourlatepostie! · Post by **yourlatepostie!** » 05 Nov 2020, 18:39

Such bullshit from a company that likes to tell us how much the care about their people.
Forcing people into a choice of half pay & nil pay or putting their health at risk when furlough could solve this at little cost to Royal Mail.
Heartless once again.

Edward Hunter · Post by **Edward Hunter** » 05 Nov 2020, 18:56

Its a tough one i should imagine. It must have cost RM a fortune to pay people to stay off because of this as it is very labour intensive job and our t+cs are very good. Some help from the government for what is called an essential service would have been nice.The second lock down has seen people that last time would have been allowed to miss work because of health conditions, now have to come in (and not just at RM either) It seems a bit of colateral damage is now acceptable. it must be hard for the remaining posties in delivery offices where lots of people were furloghed last time, luckily so far we have not had a big sickness problem.

NWpostie · Post by **NWpostie** » 05 Nov 2020, 19:02

So essentially sick pay up to 6 months and half pay afterward and SSP afterward ?

theotherone · Post by **theotherone** » 05 Nov 2020, 19:22

Such bullshit.This company are the most morally corrupt bunch of barstewards.
Most of them would of been forced to use up lots of sick pay already.
Love to know the kind of money it would cost to pay the most vulnerable to be off.A drop in the ocean for RM I would imagine.Embarassing.

Pumpernickel · Post by **Pumpernickel** » 05 Nov 2020, 19:28

Employees who have received a letter / email from the government or NHS advising that they are extremely clinically vulnerable should work from home where possible. Where it's not possible, they are entitled to sick pay in line with the normal Royal Mail sick pay limits. Where sick pay has been exhausted, SSP may be paid (subject to eligibility) in line with government guidelines.

I don't see how RM can defend this position TBH (I struggle to believe someone with any working bodily function actually came up with it).

They can claim furlough for such employees, so there is no need to use any sick pay or to subject those people to SSP for isolating due to their clinically vulnerable status.

Is this not some form of discrimination?

theotherone · Post by **theotherone** » 05 Nov 2020, 19:32

Pumpernickel wrote:
Employees who have received a letter / email from the government or NHS advising that they are extremely clinically vulnerable should work from home where possible. Where it's not possible, they are entitled to sick pay in line with the normal Royal Mail sick pay limits. Where sick pay has been exhausted, SSP may be paid (subject to eligibility) in line with government guidelines.
I don't see how RM can defend this position TBH (I struggle to believe someone with any working bodily function actually came up with it).

They can claim furlough for such employees, so there is no need to use any sick pay or to subject those people to SSP for isolating due to their clinically vulnerable status.

Is this not some form of discrimination?

RM are not offering furlough this time....from what I can gather just because they don't want to.
Union should of been all over this.

Pumpernickel · Post by **Pumpernickel** » 05 Nov 2020, 19:37

theotherone wrote:
RM are not offering furlough this time....from what I can gather just because they don't want to.
Union should of been all over this.

Obviously, but I do feel there are some questions as to the competence of the person who made this decision in terms of: can they actually breathe unaided?

It seems like such a stupid position to take that cannot ever be defended: The government are putting the money up. The people are medically classified as extremely vulnerable to a point that the government has written to them about that status.

What is there to be gained here? (aside from a mountain of bad press that "RM forces vulnerable staff to work in busy offices" and such)

theotherone · Post by **theotherone** » 05 Nov 2020, 19:49

Totally with you.
Sometimes to me, It just feels like RM think every one who is not at work is 'at it'.
The government are telling these people to stay at home because it's dangerous to them potentially life threating, like you said there is a furlough scheme where the money is being put up!
It's all hands on deck no matter the cost.All I think they gain from it,literally they don't want people off in an already stretched operation.
They hide behind things like it says "they should work from home where possible" and it gives them an out card.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 05 Nov 2020, 20:47

What the business has done makes no sense at all, it's like they want the business to fail by paying out s**t loads of sick pay, w*****s.
From memory it took them ages to do the 1st one, one thing the CWU did right in all this.

johnboy999 · Post by **johnboy999** » 05 Nov 2020, 21:16

POSTMAN wrote:What the business has done makes no sense at all, it's like they want the business to fail by paying out s**t loads of sick pay, w*****s.
From memory it took them ages to do the 1st one, one thing the CWU did right in all this.

It’s more important now that the CWU step in and support it’s members affected like this.... many used up their sick allowance in the first round of shielding and now face the prospect of half pay or zero pay/SSP. Real nice just before Christmas. Surely it can’t be that hard to persuade RM to do the right thing, can it? It’s actually going to save them money, after all!

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 05 Nov 2020, 21:26

Surely, it makes sense if they are clinically vulnerable for them to work from home??

Saying that, what is common sense is rarely common practice at Royal Mail. They would rather pay full rate sick pay for staff who are clinically vulnerable rather than apply for the generous governments furlough scheme.

yourlatepostie! · Post by **yourlatepostie!** » 05 Nov 2020, 22:29

This will affect the clinically extremely vulnerable (CEV as we are now abbreviated to) for the next 4 years as most will have underlying conditions that have already eaten into the 26 weeks full sick pay and will more than likely be sick again in the future. The 18 weeks shielding from last time. Now another 4 weeks shielding. That’s 22 weeks Royal Mail could have saved money on & saved a lot of stress for their people. To achieve what?

Post by **Lincox** » 06 Nov 2020, 20:10

In the last furlough did Royal Mail make pension contributions for those who were furloughed? I think the employer still has to make national insurance contributions and pension contributions but not sure as to what level.

NWpostie · Post by **NWpostie** » 06 Nov 2020, 20:51

And your AVC contributions ......