what is official cwu advice moving forward for posties duties

sardonicus · Post by **sardonicus** » 01 May 2020, 09:37

23.5 hrs 3 day cover over 3 days

Does anyone know what the cwu is advising posties to do as regards delivery/.duty moving forward?

I been starting on actual walk last 5 weeks, not my walks - as i cant get there - different postcode.

I have been doing my duty days and an extra day to make up hours.

Are they advising to only go in on actual duty days and to the delivery office?

tomorrow - saturday - will be trolley delivering packages on the walk from van and topping up but will not go to office afterwards if asked as cant get their, cant drive as i would be classed as at work already and no business use.

i want to follow union advice but dont know whats going on or what advice is

eggraidonmojo · Post by **eggraidonmojo** » 01 May 2020, 12:19

Yeah, the official CWU advice is "In defiance of the company’s unilateral action, all members should continue to adhere to their currently agreed duty/attendance arrangements."

But to be honest, we need some more guidance than that. Hopefully some will come out before 11 May. Speak to your local rep if necessary too.

For tomorrow though I would have thought your management will not expect you to do anything different than what you have been doing recently.

https://www.cwu.org/ltb/ltb-230-20-roya ... ve-action/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

sardonicus · Post by **sardonicus** » 01 May 2020, 15:19

eggraidonmojo wrote:Yeah, the official CWU advice is "In defiance of the company’s unilateral action, all members should continue to adhere to their currently agreed duty/attendance arrangements."

But to be honest, we need some more guidance than that. Hopefully some will come out before 11 May. Speak to your local rep if necessary too.

For tomorrow though I would have thought your management will not expect you to do anything different than what you have been doing recently.

https://www.cwu.org/ltb/ltb-230-20-roya ... ve-action/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers egg, thanks for your input.

Post by **ihatedogs** » 01 May 2020, 15:29

sardonicus wrote:23.5 hrs 3 day cover over 3 days

Does anyone know what the cwu is advising posties to do as regards delivery/.duty moving forward?

I been starting on actual walk last 5 weeks, not my walks - as i cant get there - different postcode.

I have been doing my duty days and an extra day to make up hours.

Are they advising to only go in on actual duty days and to the delivery office?

tomorrow - saturday - will be trolley delivering packages on the walk from van and topping up but will not go to office afterwards if asked as cant get their, cant drive as i would be classed as at work already and no business use.

i want to follow union advice but dont know whats going on or what advice is

No advice on what to do except to say the union are totally putting the onus on the individual here.
If you refuse a reasonable request from your DOM then you may find yourself suspended and relying on the union to save your job.
Think about that, the union are doing nothing proactive whilst telling you to risk your job and they'll back you.
Having said all that, the actual reason I replied is nothing to do with that.
You say you can't drive to the office as this is classed as business use. If the office is your usual place of work then you are not insured to drive to a meeting point to start your delivery.
If that's the case you are already driving without insurance.

cpsteve · Post by **cpsteve** » 01 May 2020, 15:55

ihatedogs wrote:
sardonicus wrote:23.5 hrs 3 day cover over 3 days

Does anyone know what the cwu is advising posties to do as regards delivery/.duty moving forward?

I been starting on actual walk last 5 weeks, not my walks - as i cant get there - different postcode.

I have been doing my duty days and an extra day to make up hours.

Are they advising to only go in on actual duty days and to the delivery office?

tomorrow - saturday - will be trolley delivering packages on the walk from van and topping up but will not go to office afterwards if asked as cant get their, cant drive as i would be classed as at work already and no business use.

i want to follow union advice but dont know whats going on or what advice is
No advice on what to do except to say the union are totally putting the onus on the individual here.
If you refuse a reasonable request from your DOM then you may find yourself suspended and relying on the union to save your job.
Think about that, the union are doing nothing proactive whilst telling you to risk your job and they'll back you.
Having said all that, the actual reason I replied is nothing to do with that.
You say you can't drive to the office as this is classed as business use. If the office is your usual place of work then you are not insured to drive to a meeting point to start your delivery.
If that's the case you are already driving without insurance.

Well our rep has told us we can not refuse a reasonable request so any job you can do in your hours is fine. What we do not have to do is change out start/finish time if the manager tells us different we go to the rep. At the moment they are finding out if its against any employment law to change our work pattern without notice. Having no union is Ricos wet dream.

sardonicus · Post by **sardonicus** » 01 May 2020, 16:17

ihatedogs wrote:
sardonicus wrote:23.5 hrs 3 day cover over 3 days

Does anyone know what the cwu is advising posties to do as regards delivery/.duty moving forward?

I been starting on actual walk last 5 weeks, not my walks - as i cant get there - different postcode.

I have been doing my duty days and an extra day to make up hours.

Are they advising to only go in on actual duty days and to the delivery office?

tomorrow - saturday - will be trolley delivering packages on the walk from van and topping up but will not go to office afterwards if asked as cant get their, cant drive as i would be classed as at work already and no business use.

i want to follow union advice but dont know whats going on or what advice is
No advice on what to do except to say the union are totally putting the onus on the individual here.
If you refuse a reasonable request from your DOM then you may find yourself suspended and relying on the union to save your job.
Think about that, the union are doing nothing proactive whilst telling you to risk your job and they'll back you.
Having said all that, the actual reason I replied is nothing to do with that.
You say you can't drive to the office as this is classed as business use. If the office is your usual place of work then you are not insured to drive to a meeting point to start your delivery.
If that's the case you are already driving without insurance.

Hi Mate thanks for replying

Insurance - my insurance company has said i can drive to a point where i start work , be that office or street, but, once I start work I cannot drive for work, carry work like pouches and I cannot drive inbetween places.
I can drive to office, start work, deliver from van, return to office and drive home later or I can drive to a street, start work, store no property on my vehicle, but once I start work i cannot then use my car to go between loops or even drive to a rm office after if in still being paid as any use of my car after starting employed work and continueing employed work invalidates the insurance. so if i deliver on saturday packets from start of actual work thats ok and dont use car until I am finished thats ok but if i get in it and then drive to the office to do more work ( as has been suggested they might ask walkers to do on a saturday ) i could not as would not be insured as would be extension of my emp,loyed day hope that makes sense lol

Just to add, the manager is saying that although I am working on my normal cover days, Im starting delivery at 9.30am, not the usual 7am, and so im not being paid till from 9.30am and so i can drive to a street as im not employed till 9.30am so ok for insurance! - thats why hes made me do an extra day to make up hours and was pushing me for 5! which I said no to!

Route1 · Post by **Route1** » 02 May 2020, 05:04

sardonicus wrote: I have been doing my duty days and an extra day to make up hours.

Are they advising to only go in on actual duty days and to the delivery office?

tomorrow - saturday - will be trolley delivering packages on the walk from van and topping up but will not go to office afterwards if asked as cant get their, cant drive as i would be classed as at work already and no business use.

i want to follow union advice but dont know whats going on or what advice is

Our rep said to politely decline any change of hours / days off for duty holders. This is in response to the stopping of Saturday letter deliveries. Reserves dont really have a choice in terms of days off.

I'm a passenger and could drive to my start point but declined as I am content to walk the 15 min from my office to my start point. Easy walking taking up duty time as I refuse to carry the bag until I'm at the start of my loop. I can carry the bag if a reasonable request was made. Then scroll back to the office at the end of the last loop & claim the o/t. These van share duties werent designed for walking between loops so take longer to complete. I dont load the van as I start walking as soon as I've tied down. My van share partner loads my stuff into the van so I can get to the loop start point. Hes driving, i'm walking.

Other non drivers who live closer to the loop start than the office have been going to the loop start rather than the office. They have been effectively working 4.5 hr per day instead of 5.5hr. They havent been asked to work extra to make up hours as they'll do what I do and start in the office which will add an extra 40min - 60 min to their duties (walking from office to loop start & then to office from loop end). As far as I'm aware they havent claimed o/t for being slightly over their time as they generally get home earlier due not to not coming back to the office.

Are they advising to only go in on actual duty days and to the delivery office?
Yes from our rep. Although those that want to can start from their delivery start point. If you are a duty holder, you have a start & finish time as well as a duty pattern.

I have been doing my duty days and an extra day to make up hours.
If it suits you thats fine. BUT I WOULDNT BE WORKING AN EXTRA DAY WITHOUT PAY. I understand you are making up your hours but i'd just start at the office and let them deal with the headache of how to get you there & back. As I mentioned above the guys who start at the loop start (missing throwing in parcels , redirections, tie down) arent asked to work extra days as if they start from the office its going to kill atleast 40 min of outdoor duty time walking to & back to the office.

There are a couple that drive to the office, do the indoor stuff and drive to the start of the first loop. This has been cleared by our union rep. Remember no mail can be carried in your car.

the manager is saying that although I am working on my normal cover days, Im starting delivery at 9.30am, not the usual 7am, and so im not being paid till from 9.30am and so i can drive to a street as im not employed till 9.30am so ok for insurance! - thats why hes made me do an extra day to make up hours and was pushing me for 5! which I said no to!
We've been told we can drive to the start point like the old days before van share. I didnt pay attention but i believe Royal Mail insurance covers you from office to start point. That starting at 9:30am instead of 7am & working an extra day to make up the hours is just a no-no from me. Speak to the guy union & if he says its fine, i'd speak to the area rep unless you are happy with the new shift pattern. There are guys who are starting an hour later and finishing an hour later but its was voluntary.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 03 May 2020, 11:49

I would agree with the last post.

People were working from home and management told them to either work an extra day or deliver a few more loops to make up their hours, especially if they are full time and usually started their shift doing indoor work. Most of them thought sod that and came back to the office and did the indoor work instead. End result meaning more staff working in the office.

Apart from a few newbies starting at 1pm,we are constantly bumping into each other. Lol

The business should realise that most of these postie's either working from home or using their cars are actually doing Royal Mail a favour!

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 03 May 2020, 11:59

The business should realise that most of these postie's either working from home or using their cars are actually doing Royal Mail a favour!

Unfortunately in my experience it was mostly complaints from colleagues that led to the ridiculous position of trying to force those starting on the street to work 6 days and I don't blame them for telling management to shove it.

This was a business decision not a request from the member and as that there should be no compulsion to "make up hours" especially by working 6 days.

The delivery side if the job is by far the most physically demanding and these guys were already walking further between the loops.

If you told a driver as of next week you'll be starting 90 minutes later but you'll be working 6 days instead they would quite rightly tell management to shove it but some of these same drivers have been moaning at managers to do exactly that to the guys starting on the street, it's pathetic.