Using PDA actuals to prove you have no scope for new houses on delivery

themailman · Post by **themailman** » 13 Feb 2020, 16:27

Is there a recognised procedure for this?
500 new houses nearing completion, no plan in place for how they are to be delivered.

Bahia Feliz · Post by **Bahia Feliz** » 13 Feb 2020, 16:36

Who's delivering the ones that are occupied at the moment?

themailman · Post by **themailman** » 13 Feb 2020, 16:39

Bahia Feliz wrote:Who's delivering the ones that are occupied at the moment?

They are quite spread out, so it seems to be anyone who is back even slightly early, although quite a few of us never have that issue. Not really a plan for going forward.

DGH · Post by **DGH** » 13 Feb 2020, 16:40

Suppose managers used PDA actuals to show that a walk could take more houses? Would that be fair enough? If so then it's definitely fair for the reverse to happen (a postie using them to prove that they're walk cannot be added to).

However if one would oppose managers making use of actuals in that way then it's very hard to see a way that you could argue for delivery staff to.

leolion855 · Post by **leolion855** » 13 Feb 2020, 16:41

Request the work place coach goes out with you and times it DOING ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES (breaks/trollets/trying neighbours etc)

themailman · Post by **themailman** » 13 Feb 2020, 16:45

leolion855 wrote:Request the work place coach goes out with you and times it DOING ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES (breaks/trollets/trying neighbours etc)

I've no issue with RM using the PDA actuals as they are.

citypostie · Post by **citypostie** » 13 Feb 2020, 18:54

themailman wrote:
leolion855 wrote:Request the work place coach goes out with you and times it DOING ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES (breaks/trollets/trying neighbours etc)
I've no issue with RM using the PDA actuals as they are.

You might have soon. How they can use PDA actuals to decide on the content of duties baffles me because the data for the same delivery over a year could be totally different everyday if they had different people delivering on it. Unless everyone works the same way and at the same pace all using actuals would donis create a load of messed up duties bases on worthless data

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 13 Feb 2020, 19:31

citypostie wrote:
themailman wrote:
leolion855 wrote:Request the work place coach goes out with you and times it DOING ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES (breaks/trollets/trying neighbours etc)
I've no issue with RM using the PDA actuals as they are.
You might have soon. How they can use PDA actuals to decide on the content of duties baffles me because the data for the same delivery over a year could be totally different everyday if they had different people delivering on it. Unless everyone works the same way and at the same pace all using actuals would donis create a load of messed up duties bases on worthless data

Once parcel automation really kicks in, they'll have a lot more data about what mail each walk gets.

citypostie · Post by **citypostie** » 13 Feb 2020, 19:35

SpacePhoenix wrote:
citypostie wrote:
themailman wrote:
leolion855 wrote:Request the work place coach goes out with you and times it DOING ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES (breaks/trollets/trying neighbours etc)
I've no issue with RM using the PDA actuals as they are.
You might have soon. How they can use PDA actuals to decide on the content of duties baffles me because the data for the same delivery over a year could be totally different everyday if they had different people delivering on it. Unless everyone works the same way and at the same pace all using actuals would donis create a load of messed up duties bases on worthless data
Once parcel automation really kicks in, they'll have a lot more data about what mail each walk gets.

Doesn't matter what data they've got about how much mail a walk gets, you could send hundreds of people out on the same delivery with the same amount of mail and get hundreds of different sets of PDA actuals. The finish times could be hours apart depending on who's doing it, there's deliveries in my office that depending on who's doing them finish nearly 3 hours later on some days and on the face of it the only difference is the people doing it

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 13 Feb 2020, 20:46

citypostie wrote:
SpacePhoenix wrote:
citypostie wrote:
themailman wrote:
leolion855 wrote:Request the work place coach goes out with you and times it DOING ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES (breaks/trollets/trying neighbours etc)
I've no issue with RM using the PDA actuals as they are.
You might have soon. How they can use PDA actuals to decide on the content of duties baffles me because the data for the same delivery over a year could be totally different everyday if they had different people delivering on it. Unless everyone works the same way and at the same pace all using actuals would donis create a load of messed up duties bases on worthless data
Once parcel automation really kicks in, they'll have a lot more data about what mail each walk gets.
Doesn't matter what data they've got about how much mail a walk gets, you could send hundreds of people out on the same delivery with the same amount of mail and get hundreds of different sets of PDA actuals. The finish times could be hours apart depending on who's doing it, there's deliveries in my office that depending on who's doing them finish nearly 3 hours later on some days and on the face of it the only difference is the people doing it

I can see RM trying to bring in outdoor performance standards within the next year (maybe 2). It's only a matter of time before they try bringing in performance standards for very section in every office (and every type of office)

streets97 · Post by **streets97** » 13 Feb 2020, 22:52

3 hours difference on a walk, hahaha, impossible. Unless the slowest goes round on their hands and knees and the fastest goes round like Eluid Kipchoge.

smartecosse · Post by **smartecosse** » 14 Feb 2020, 06:38

streets97 wrote:3 hours difference on a walk, hahaha, impossible. Unless the slowest goes round on their hands and knees and the fastest goes round like Eluid Kipchoge.

Runner on a duties that's does two walks packets that doorstops them all versus someone that does it at a sensible pace and does try neighbours etc....

Not closing gates....door stopping and having 'missorts" for those pesky houses at the far end of the loop saves a lot of time.

masterblaster · Post by **masterblaster** » 14 Feb 2020, 14:58

DGH wrote:Suppose managers used PDA actuals to show that a walk could take more houses? Would that be fair enough? If so then it's definitely fair for the reverse to happen (a postie using them to prove that they're walk cannot be added to).

However if one would oppose managers making use of actuals in that way then it's very hard to see a way that you could argue for delivery staff to.

How can anyone you use data you do not have to add more delivery points?
The PDA cannot show how long it would take to deliver to new addresses, whether the new delivery points situated behind lots of hedges and each with their separate path, or on hilly terrain which always takes longer to cover (PDAs only show 2D not how much elevation there is).

DGH · Post by **DGH** » 14 Feb 2020, 16:09

They could potentially use the information they do have. If the pda actuals showed that there was, for example, around 25 minutes per day not being worked then very clearly that walk could take around 25 minutes extra work.

You could then estimate how many new houses that might be. And then adjust as necessary with the new actuals.

Not rocket science.

NB, I'm not commenting on whether or not I think using actuals to adjust walks is good or bad as a concept, merely that if one accepts they should be used to prove that a walk is 'at capacity' then there can't logically be an argument against their use to prove a walk is 'below capacity'. However I don't doubt that some people will attempt to so argue . . .

citypostie · Post by **citypostie** » 14 Feb 2020, 17:01

streets97 wrote:3 hours difference on a walk, hahaha, impossible. Unless the slowest goes round on their hands and knees and the fastest goes round like Eluid Kipchoge.

It really isn't as proved with by these walks in my office, 1 person did one of them and ghosted the other got back 3pm, the regulars get back at 3 or later on average or even later. Do the maths yourself one person can do them faster than the 2 regulars together! Yes he didn't use a trolley and they do but even so it shows the difference between the speeds people work at unless a trolley adds about half an hour onto every loop? Also when people argue about equal workloads that fact one person can do as much work as 2 people in the same time at the moment and no questions get asked really does make you think royal mail will push for standards otherwise when the clocking in/out and only paid for hours worked comes in everyone will just work like the 2 people I've mentioned