'Saturday shuts'

Alexei · Post by **Alexei** » 03 Jan 2020, 09:29

Hi, I've been covering a walk which has some commercial properties ( ie main Street & few small industrial parks ).

First day on duty, partner said the firm's aren't delivered Saturdays. I was sceptical as there were some I'm sure are open on Saturdays, and some even have letterbox cutouts in their shutters, if they are indeed closed.

My issue is the previous duty holders were using this to get an early finish on a Saturday, but this has now been ended (rightfully so) at the cost of taking extra workload from a new development which isn't allocated to a walk.

The thing is, I would estimate over 90% of these firms CAN be delivered on a Saturday (either open, or cutouts in shutters), so should be attempted. This obviously means there will be no time to deliver the new development.

There's also the case with returning mail for businesses that are closed for the 3 weeks over the festive period. Some firms have registered a keep safe, but many others haven't, yet my partner is holding back the mail for ones without keep-safes & bloody letterbox cutouts!

So my questions:
1. Are businesses eligible for delivery on Saturdays?
2. Does the normal rule of attempt delivery 3 times then RTS still apply over Christmas?

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 03 Jan 2020, 12:19

All questions / issues for you manager.

However:

I give schools and businesses a lot of leeway on holidays and long weekends. Killing of stuff is just asking for complaints.
If you think it should be killed off, let your manager do it and take the blame.

Only official retentions should not be attempted. Personally, if I know for a fact that a business is not open and has no letterbox, I'll put it with the retentions.

If I was you, I'd take most of the stuff out and explain to the manager why you can't do the extra new build.

Alexei · Post by **Alexei** » 03 Jan 2020, 12:50

Most schools I've delivered to in the past have had a caretaker on site on Saturdays, if not then returned for delivery on the Monday. Days gone by I've returned items and had no recourse, just unsure of the businesses.

Bit of a pointless debate regarding RTS now that most are opening shortly, but the Saturday delivery is very much still in question. Isn't it effectively removing hours from the office? The way I see it is Saturday is still a working day for us, so we're obliged to at least attempt delivery. In the past, someone had a complaint logged as they waiting in their business for the tracked item, but the postie scanned it as inaccessible.

Post by **Steve_claret** » 03 Jan 2020, 13:41

The USO states that all mail needs to go out for delivery unless a customer has specifically requested that a delivery does not take place either on Mon - Fri or on a Saturday. In these cases then the Delivery Office Manager must seek in writing from the customer authority to hold mails & therefore refrain from our Delivery USO obligation. So I would speak with your manager who should have a list of what mail can officially stay in the office on a saturday. This mail retention list used to be in the DO Aplus system but not sure if it still is or not.

Alexei · Post by **Alexei** » 03 Jan 2020, 14:11

Steve_claret wrote:The USO states that all mail needs to go out for delivery unless a customer has specifically requested that a delivery does not take place either on Mon - Fri or on a Saturday. In these cases then the Delivery Office Manager must seek in writing from the customer authority to hold mails & therefore refrain from our Delivery USO obligation. So I would speak with your manager who should have a list of what mail can officially stay in the office on a saturday. This mail retention list used to be in the DO Aplus system but not sure if it still is or not.

Ok I will ask, thanks. Although I suspect this document may have been 'lost' with assurances that all the businesses have requested this service & to continue delivering extra.

picture123 · Post by **picture123** » 03 Jan 2020, 20:48

Alexei wrote:
Steve_claret wrote:The USO states that all mail needs to go out for delivery unless a customer has specifically requested that a delivery does not take place either on Mon - Fri or on a Saturday. In these cases then the Delivery Office Manager must seek in writing from the customer authority to hold mails & therefore refrain from our Delivery USO obligation. So I would speak with your manager who should have a list of what mail can officially stay in the office on a saturday. This mail retention list used to be in the DO Aplus system but not sure if it still is or not.
Ok I will ask, thanks. Although I suspect this document may have been 'lost' with assurances that all the businesses have requested this service & to continue delivering extra.

The USO exemptions are reviewed yearly so he should have a fairly recent copy. If not they can print of a letter for every firm and ask them to fill in their requirements. That will give you an up to date list.

grchpo · Post by **grchpo** » 04 Jan 2020, 16:07

Or you could just have an easier day on Saturday, just saying

Alexei · Post by **Alexei** » 04 Jan 2020, 16:34

grchpo wrote:Or you could just have an easier day on Saturday, just saying

I think there may be a slight misunderstanding. On Saturday's, the manager is giving extra delivery as he thinks the businesses are closed & have retentions. Many are open and many closed businesses do not have retentions, but can receive their delivery regardless as they have letterboxes. The manager is essentially advocating delivery of one quarter of the duty (residential part), and utilising the resource freed up by allocating the unassigned new development to this duty. It's not so much about having an easier day - any delivery I do lasts at most 4 hours 15 minutes - it's management breaking the quality of service; willful delay I guess you could say

Post by **97gaz** » 04 Jan 2020, 16:44

Alexei wrote: it's management breaking the quality of service; willful delay I guess you could say

It's highly unlikely that this is happening. The customer has had a letter from us asking them to confirm that they don't want Saturday delivery. They get a fresh letter every year. We have hundreds that have a delivery point but have asked us not to deliver on a Saturday. If a manager was allowing mail to be kept that he knew didn't have the customers permission and he got caught then his feet wouldn't touch the ground.

Steve_claret wrote:This mail retention list used to be in the DO Aplus system but not sure if it still is or not.

Aplus has been ditched and the program is now Route Manager. It's not fully operational yet but I have had a few notifications from it to print out new letters because the retention is about to expire.

Alexei · Post by **Alexei** » 04 Jan 2020, 16:59

97gaz wrote:
Alexei wrote: it's management breaking the quality of service; willful delay I guess you could say
It's highly unlikely that this is happening. [...] If a manager was allowing mail to be kept that he knew didn't have the customers permission and he got caught then his feet wouldn't touch the ground.

Contrary to your opinion, this is indeed the case. Now, either the manager doesn't know there are very few retentions (which is plausible given the habits of previous duty holders & day off covers exploiting the retention service to get early finishes) OR he does know, and is using it to his advantage

edit:
Example - There are 150 businesses, and 10 decide to purchase the retention service, with the other 140 happy to receive Saturday delivery, but under the managers request, all 150 are 'kept behind' to free up extra delivery time to be utilised elsewhere.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 04 Jan 2020, 17:53

97gaz wrote:
Alexei wrote: it's management breaking the quality of service; willful delay I guess you could say
It's highly unlikely that this is happening. The customer has had a letter from us asking them to confirm that they don't want Saturday delivery. They get a fresh letter every year. We have hundreds that have a delivery point but have asked us not to deliver on a Saturday. If a manager was allowing mail to be kept that he knew didn't have the customers permission and he got caught then his feet wouldn't touch the ground.

Steve_claret wrote:This mail retention list used to be in the DO Aplus system but not sure if it still is or not.
Aplus has been ditched and the program is now Route Manager. It's not fully operational yet but I have had a few notifications from it to print out new letters because the retention is about to expire.

I wonder if the change of software from A+ to Route Manager would explain the problems we had a few weeks ago with batch sort plan updates.

How many of the retention ones have got letter boxes? The ones that have I would have thought that any mail that doesn't need signing for and would fit through the letter box would always be delivered irrespective of any retention

Post by **97gaz** » 04 Jan 2020, 22:04

SpacePhoenix wrote:
How many of the retention ones have got letter boxes? The ones that have I would have thought that any mail that doesn't need signing for and would fit through the letter box would always be delivered irrespective of any retention

The letter asked the customer to choose one of the following
1 Mon-Sat delivery
2 No mail Saturday
3 Mail on Saturday but nothing signed for
4 no mail any other specified day of the week.

If they have a retention they do not get any mail regardless of any access to any delivery point. Everything remains in the delivery office. Even Sat guaranteed specials.

If the OPs manager is holding all of the business mail then I'll be surprised if they've all got paperwork for it. I reckon I've got signed retention letters for around half of our estates business but less than that for the high street business'

Post by **97gaz** » 04 Jan 2020, 22:06

Alexei wrote:decide to purchase the retention service

There is no charge for a Saturday (or any other day) retention.

Seymour Buts · Post by **Seymour Buts** » 05 Jan 2020, 00:10

I assume you're only expected to take the new development on a Saturday then? As it isn't your duty I'd just go with the flow. If you haven't got the time on a Saturday leave it, if you have take it. There are plenty of folk in our office who don't touch their firms on a Saturday regardless in truth. If they have got a retention, you definitely shouldn't deliver though. We've had a couple of complaints in our office before now about people delivering on Saturday's when retention's were in place: one guy set an alarm off pushing mail through a door, the other carded somebody. Basically the guys in question had a quiet Saturday so were cutting their work for the following Monday down.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 05 Jan 2020, 03:47

Alexei wrote:
grchpo wrote:Or you could just have an easier day on Saturday, just saying
I think there may be a slight misunderstanding. On Saturday's, the manager is giving extra delivery as he thinks the businesses are closed & have retentions. Many are open and many closed businesses do not have retentions, but can receive their delivery regardless as they have letterboxes. The manager is essentially advocating delivery of one quarter of the duty (residential part), and utilising the resource freed up by allocating the unassigned new development to this duty. It's not so much about having an easier day - any delivery I do lasts at most 4 hours 15 minutes - it's management breaking the quality of service; willful delay I guess you could say

Only companies that have requested and/or completed a request for Saturday retention should have their mail retained on Saturdays.

https://www.royalmail.com/sites/default ... y-2018.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

16, In addition, we will not deliver items to an address if a person at that address has requested for
items not to be delivered on a Saturday under a retention arrangement with their local Delivery
Office.