CWU Leaders

[edinburghsteve]

Regardless of ballot paper result, should union members start calling for Hayes and Ward to stand down as our leaders ????

[dvbuk55]

Absolutely - there has to be confidence in the leadership and sadly that has long gone.

[johnnyp]

Regardless of ballot paper result, should union members start calling for Hayes and Ward to stand down as our leaders ????

Absolutely - there has to be confidence in the leadership and sadly that has long gone.

Should we not wait untill the result of the Ballot first colleagues ,that will give us the answer to that question of how the membership feel IMHO.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Regardless of ballot paper result, should union members start calling for Hayes and Ward to stand down as our leaders ????

Absolutely - there has to be confidence in the leadership and sadly that has long gone.

Not yet. If the No camp, of which I am firmly in, win then perhaps yes then would be a good time to make the move. However, if the vote is above board and the Yes camp win then we cannot truthfully say that the leaders have lost the confidence of the members.

But then there is nothing in the rules to say that its not OK to start a grass roots movement to do as you suggest, but you would not be able to claim the ballot as a "Vote of no confidence" if the deal is accepted.

[BELIAL]

Regardless of ballot paper result, should union members start calling for Hayes and Ward to stand down as our leaders ????

Absolutely - there has to be confidence in the leadership and sadly that has long gone.

Not yet. If the No camp, of which I am firmly in, win then perhaps yes then would be a good time to make the move. However, if the vote is above board and the Yes camp win then we cannot truthfully say that the leaders have lost the confidence of the members.

But then there is nothing in the rules to say that its not OK to start a grass roots movement to do as you suggest, but you would not be able to claim the ballot as a "Vote of no confidence" if the deal is accepted.

Can of worms this one, raises many issues.

How truly and fairly democratic can a ballot be if the voters are at best provided with partial information and at worst skewed information, not to mention a complete lack of analysis of future implications of the deal. True ,individuals should examine the deal but when presented with a somewhat partisan precis from a once trusted leadership who are in a position of authority, how many will ?

Perhaps there are thirty branches and more that may consider an alternative organisational structure , not a bad grass roots start.

Funny how this dispute seems to replicate in minature the development of the labour party from Kinnock on. The implications for Democracy are grave.
The policy decisions of conference , our most powerful democratic voice get sidelined or overruled by the executive. Conference becomes window dressing a talking shop ,maintaining the appearance of democratic representation without the substance.
Next step the NEC is sidestepped through procedural changes and before you know it all power resides with an elite autocratic cabal. And all the time they trumpet themselves as the true exponents of democracy. Challenge their power and you will be branded an extremist, anti democratic, somehow not quite in touch with reality.

If we wish to ensure our democratic representation all reps should be mandated all procedures should be public and any transgression should be punishable by immediate deselection and disbarment.
Such conditions would provide any national negotiators with the most powerful bargaining position imaginable.

[lovejoy]

Regardless of ballot paper result, should union members start calling for Hayes and Ward to stand down as our leaders ????

Absolutely - there has to be confidence in the leadership and sadly that has long gone.

Not yet. If the No camp, of which I am firmly in, win then perhaps yes then would be a good time to make the move. However, if the vote is above board and the Yes camp win then we cannot truthfully say that the leaders have lost the confidence of the members.

But then there is nothing in the rules to say that its not OK to start a grass roots movement to do as you suggest, but you would not be able to claim the ballot as a "Vote of no confidence" if the deal is accepted.

Lets not fall into the Royal Mail set trap of putting ourselves into 'camps'

We are all CWU members with different opinions but we must remain united whatever the result of this deal.

The PEC are up for election early next year so once again CWU members will have the chance to elect their leaders.

Only 18% or so voted in last years PEC elections. If we want to have a REAL say in where this union is going then the least we should do is use our votes!!

[dvbuk55]

Regardless of ballot paper result, should union members start calling for Hayes and Ward to stand down as our leaders ????

Absolutely - there has to be confidence in the leadership and sadly that has long gone.

Not yet. If the No camp, of which I am firmly in, win then perhaps yes then would be a good time to make the move. However, if the vote is above board and the Yes camp win then we cannot truthfully say that the leaders have lost the confidence of the members.

But then there is nothing in the rules to say that its not OK to start a grass roots movement to do as you suggest, but you would not be able to claim the ballot as a "Vote of no confidence" if the deal is accepted.

Can of worms this one, raises many issues.

How truly and fairly democratic can a ballot be if the voters are at best provided with partial information and at worst skewed information, not to mention a complete lack of analysis of future implications of the deal. True ,individuals should examine the deal but when presented with a somewhat partisan precis from a once trusted leadership who are in a position of authority, how many will ?

Perhaps there are thirty branches and more that may consider an alternative organisational structure , not a bad grass roots start.

Funny how this dispute seems to replicate in minature the development of the labour party from Kinnock on. The implications for Democracy are grave.
The policy decisions of conference , our most powerful democratic voice get sidelined or overruled by the executive. Conference becomes window dressing a talking shop ,maintaining the appearance of democratic representation without the substance.
Next step the NEC is sidestepped through procedural changes and before you know it all power resides with an elite autocratic cabal. And all the time they trumpet themselves as the true exponents of democracy. Challenge their power and you will be branded an extremist, anti democratic, somehow not quite in touch with reality.

If we wish to ensure our democratic representation all reps should be mandated all procedures should be public and any transgression should be punishable by immediate deselection and disbarment.
Such conditions would provide any national negotiators with the most powerful bargaining position imaginable.

Bravo.

[edinburghsteve]

I agree we have to wait until the result, but I think must of our collegues have been let down with our leaders. All whats been agreed is PAY AND FLEXIBILITY nothing else.

[Body Beyond Repair]

We put our trust and expect our leadership along with the PEC to negotiate the best deal possible for our members. After recomending an agreement where most has to be negotiated locally to me is just passing the buck to the rank and file no leaders there im afraid.IF THIS IS THE BEST THEY CAN COME UP WITH WE NEED NEW NEGOTIATERS.

[oldrope]

I think a no vote will mean we dont get the £175, a yes vote we do, however the out come we still get the 5.4%. voteing yes says to BH & DW job well done!!! a no vote says you are on your way out. 130.000 verry mad post ppl, if they do not jump we will have to push them, hand our cards in!!!! GMB here we come

[andy2007]

I think a no vote will mean we dont get the £175, a yes vote we do, however the out come we still get the 5.4%. voteing yes says to BH & DW job well done!!! a no vote says you are on your way out. 130.000 verry mad post ppl, if they do not jump we will have to push them, hand our cards in!!!! GMB here we come

No it wouldn't cost us the £175, it would only delay payment. THEY HAVE TO GIVE US THE £175 EVENTUALLY, as we already earned it in a previous scheme which should have paid out by now.

[postal_jedi]

No it wouldn't cost us the £175, it would only delay payment. THEY HAVE TO GIVE US THE £175 EVENTUALLY, as we already earned it in a previous scheme which should have paid out by now.

The don't have to give us anything actually, who is going to stop them! After all we have already earned the £175 so why is it getting held back with the pay deal? Why is it being labelled as part of the pay deal?

[crocodillapig]

come to think of it what self respecting organisation would support a deal which effectively wipes out forty thousand of its own paying members?

[IWW Fellow Worker]

Only 18% or so voted in last years PEC elections.

This is the one thing that really goats me about this sodding union, so many in it yet so much apathy, and lazy fuc$ers not returning their voting papers. Geez how hard can it be, they don`t even have to pay for the postage, only thing they have to do is lick the envelope.

Or is that too hard for the morons in this union?

The ones not voting are probably the biggest moaners anyway...

Pity there wasn`t a way to MAKE sure people voted and if they didn`t they would be kicked out...

Good point! I'll bet we won't get a 50% return on this ballot either. I hope I'm wrong and it's nearer 90%, but I doubt it.

[andy2007]

No it wouldn't cost us the £175, it would only delay payment. THEY HAVE TO GIVE US THE £175 EVENTUALLY, as we already earned it in a previous scheme which should have paid out by now.

The don't have to give us anything actually, who is going to stop them! After all we have already earned the £175 so why is it getting held back with the pay deal? Why is it being labelled as part of the pay deal?

They are trying to fool us into thinking that it is extra money from them, rather than money that they should have already paid us. They think we were born yesterday!

Lovejoy, it's not neccessarily apathy which causes such poor turnouts for the PEC Elections. It is the fact that very few of us know anything about the Candidates, apart from what they tell us themselves.

Personally, I did vote. But it isn't surprising that others didn't. At least this time, we have sites such as RMC, where we can exchange views and experiences about the Candidates. So we will have a better idea of who we are voting for.