Very confuse & feeling betrayed....

[deadbox]

I am confused & am feeling betrayed.....

I VOTED NO! in the ballot...as the deal is SH*T

I have always supported the CWU and have been out on strike (picket line duty) both this time and the last big strike ....

I have always thought that the CWU has had out best interest's at heart

BUT NOW, after the latest deal brokered......I am Begining to wonder if I was right to put my faith in the CWU

As far as I can see by the deal info .....is that we have been SHAFTED.....Almost everything that RM wanted is there....

Flexi working , monthly pay , downgrade of the pension , etc. etc. etc.

IN SHORT I FEEL BETRAYED......I would be as well joining the other side......At least i'd get paid better for bending over !

Shocking I know , but thats how I feel

Some are putting a brave face on it by saying " at least the union still has a say in matters " but for how long ?

If the CWU comes to an impass over pensions or monthly pay etc. what is stopping AL & AC from saying " we need to take the business plan forward " and using exec. action again.......Who would support another strike within 6 months of the last

MOST people in my office are voting yes...( because now they have stopped IA , they don't want to start again )

WE SHOULD HAVE CONTINUED THE IA UNTIL WE GOT A GOOD DEAL, NOT JUST ANY DEAL

Those who crossed the line are being treated by most ( NOT ME ) as if nothing happened

Managers are still covering days off / overtime with their favourites.....

NOTHING HAS CHANGED FOR THEM , EXCEPT OUR Terms & Conditons are going down the drain

Or am I wrong ?? .... AM I expecting too much.......


GIVE ME HOPE !

[Albethere]

Cheer up! At least you got the chance to vote. I am still waiting for my ballot paper to arrive.

[pinstripe]

Some are putting a brave face on it by saying " at least the union still has a say in matters " but for how long

What say? They bent over and took what they were given and were thankful for it. How can we expect RM to have any respect for the Union leadership when they can intimidate them into accepting any crock they like. From now on, if this deal is accepted, RM will simply brush the union aside and impose whatever they want, with our 'unions' compliance.

[subareadeliverye5]

DEAD BOX. YOU SEEM A VERY DECENT PERSON. AND YOUR 100% RIGHT ITS A s**t DEAL. BUT ITS A 100% BETTER THAN ROYAL MAIL WANTED AND I DONT THINK WE CAN GET A BETTER ONE. TAKE DOING THE JOB PROPERLY. ITS THE ONLY WAY TO BEAT THESE BULLIES BUT HOW MANY OFFICES ARE STILL DOING IT? PETERBOROUGH IS THE ONLY OFFICE IN ANGLIA STILL DOING IT!! HOLD YOUR HEAD UP HIGH MY FRIEND YOU ARE THE REASON ROYAL MAIL COME BACK TO THE TABLE. strike breakers HAVE TO BOW THEIR HEADS IN SHAME!!

[BELIAL]

DEAD BOX. YOU SEEM A VERY DECENT PERSON. AND YOUR 100% RIGHT ITS A s**t DEAL. BUT ITS A 100% BETTER THAN ROYAL MAIL WANTED AND I DONT THINK WE CAN GET A BETTER ONE. TAKE DOING THE JOB PROPERLY. ITS THE ONLY WAY TO BEAT THESE BULLIES BUT HOW MANY OFFICES ARE STILL DOING IT? PETERBOROUGH IS THE ONLY OFFICE IN ANGLIA STILL DOING IT!! HOLD YOUR HEAD UP HIGH MY FRIEND YOU ARE THE REASON ROYAL MAIL COME BACK TO THE TABLE. strike breakers HAVE TO BOW THEIR HEADS IN SHAME!!

How is it 100% better ? tell me what I've gained the floor is all yours

[TrueBlueTerrier]

strike breakers HAVE TO BOW THEIR HEADS IN SHAME!!

Straight into a noose some would say.

[johnnyp]

Some are putting a brave face on it by saying " at least the union still has a say in matters " but for how long

What say? They bent over and took what they were given and were thankful for it. How can we expect RM to have any respect for the Union leadership when they can intimidate them into accepting any crock they like. From now on, if this deal is accepted, RM will simply brush the union aside and impose whatever they want, with our 'unions' compliance.

No they wont,the CWU will be in the workplace with this deal,if you read through it we are involved all the way from top to bottom As it should be.

[pinstripe]

Some are putting a brave face on it by saying " at least the union still has a say in matters " but for how long

What say? They bent over and took what they were given and were thankful for it. How can we expect RM to have any respect for the Union leadership when they can intimidate them into accepting any crock they like. From now on, if this deal is accepted, RM will simply brush the union aside and impose whatever they want, with our 'unions' compliance.

No they wont,the CWU will be in the workplace with this deal,if you read through it we are involved all the way from top to bottom As it should be.

Nationally, if this deal gets voted in, the union as we know it is finished. Yes, if you have a good local rep, you'll be ok, but for how long? And what happens in the less well represented offices and even in the stronger offices when the reps finally have enough?

[BELIAL]

Some are putting a brave face on it by saying " at least the union still has a say in matters " but for how long

What say? They bent over and took what they were given and were thankful for it. How can we expect RM to have any respect for the Union leadership when they can intimidate them into accepting any crock they like. From now on, if this deal is accepted, RM will simply brush the union aside and impose whatever they want, with our 'unions' compliance.

No they wont,the CWU will be in the workplace with this deal,if you read through it we are involved all the way from top to bottom As it should be.

Nationally, if this deal gets voted in, the union as we know it is finished. Yes, if you have a good local rep, you'll be ok, but for how long? And what happens in the less well represented offices and even in the stronger offices when the reps finally have enough?

Well said Pinstripe ,it does'nt take much imagination to predict the future.
Maybe the next step is 'the strength of this union is founded on members reaching individual agreements with the employer' that is the logical progression of this vote yes argument, but it does beg the question, why have a national union?

[norbet colon]

Some are putting a brave face on it by saying " at least the union still has a say in matters " but for how long

What say? They bent over and took what they were given and were thankful for it. How can we expect RM to have any respect for the Union leadership when they can intimidate them into accepting any crock they like. From now on, if this deal is accepted, RM will simply brush the union aside and impose whatever they want, with our 'unions' compliance.

No they wont,the CWU will be in the workplace with this deal,if you read through it we are involved all the way from top to bottom As it should be.

Nationally, if this deal gets voted in, the union as we know it is finished. Yes, if you have a good local rep, you'll be ok, but for how long? And what happens in the less well represented offices and even in the stronger offices when the reps finally have enough?

Well said Pinstripe ,it does'nt take much imagination to predict the future.
Maybe the next step is 'the strength of this union is founded on members reaching individual agreements with the employer' that is the logical progression of this vote yes argument, but it does beg the question, why have a national union?

I've seen what happens to good local reps in another now privatised industry , RM wanted everything to be fastracked through , if there is issues it goes to Wimbledon , they'd say the union chain of command is too long & "obstructive" with Area/Division etc , that's why RM wanted a streamlined CMA style structure .

The reality would be things being imposed -"If anyone wants to make a issue of it , remember what happened to the four at Piccadilly ",( 4 reps sent dismissal notices in taxis , they won the ET but the employer appealed , it's a game the employer could afford to play , not necessarily the union though ) was one statement from Management .

Read between the lines of everything you read through.There's more than one way of skinning a cat with RM .

The kindest thing that can be said about Biscuit Barrel Billy & Tooting ( I'll get you £400) Dave, is they were leant on from a Great Height by Brown & his Politbeauru via Barbour to settle . When that happens Crozier can play his usual tactic of throwing his spanners into the works to get what he wants at the last minute . No wonder Ward came out looking like he'd lost his wallet .

It suited RM to play the Union along and use delaying tactics as if they can't play the Victorian MillOwner , they'll wear everyone down by attrition and they know nobody wants strikes before Christmas .

I'd a interesting chat with a ex Unison Rep about their IA and CWU IA, whose brother works at Christian Rd . RM seem to know exactly what they are doing unfortunately.

Politics is the black art of the possible , oldest trick in the book , scuttle this strike and we'll look after you , what's Billy going to do outside the Union ?, advertise pies ? , if he didn't do that, RM would have gone to the courts to try and bankrupt the CWU . Ways & Means .

[dvbuk55]

No they wont,the CWU will be in the workplace with this deal,if you read through it we are involved all the way from top to bottom As it should be.

Of course they will be in the workplace - they would have been in the workplace without this deal - what we are talking about is "an effective presence" - the presence we are talking about is like wearing a condom with a hole in it.

[KawasakiKid]

DEAD BOX. YOU SEEM A VERY DECENT PERSON. AND YOUR 100% RIGHT ITS A s**t DEAL. BUT ITS A 100% BETTER THAN ROYAL MAIL WANTED AND I DONT THINK WE CAN GET A BETTER ONE. TAKE DOING THE JOB PROPERLY. ITS THE ONLY WAY TO BEAT THESE BULLIES BUT HOW MANY OFFICES ARE STILL DOING IT? PETERBOROUGH IS THE ONLY OFFICE IN ANGLIA STILL DOING IT!! HOLD YOUR HEAD UP HIGH MY FRIEND YOU ARE THE REASON ROYAL MAIL COME BACK TO THE TABLE. strike breakers HAVE TO BOW THEIR HEADS IN SHAME!!

How is it 100% better ? tell me what I've gained the floor is all yours

subarea, the floor is still yours. You're repeating the same mantra as my area rep. Have you been indoctrinated by any chance? The deals sh*t!!!!!!!!!!!! After 77% voted no, after 98% went on strike, RM have got everything they wanted in this deal. Local negotiations mean BEND OVER!!!!!!!!!!!! VOTE NO and give GORDY, BILLY and DAVE a big problem! ---------KAWAK

[subareadeliverye5]

if you read my post lads i have never said its a good deal but the opposite in fact. royal mail wanted a pay freeze in their first offer with just a £250 lump sum, door to door as duty, changing your start times by 2hrs a day,annualised hours,5 walks into 4,end of MTSF, new IR framework and more.i agree the union have been weak by passing everthing back down to local level, but people seem to be hung up on this flexibllity still. dont de scared just do the job properly and work to your time every day. the national agreement is still 3.5hr delivery span and no manager can make you work over this. tell me what else apart from a bit of flexibility have royal mail got in from their original list?

[pinstripe]

if you read my post lads i have never said its a good deal but the opposite in fact. royal mail wanted a pay freeze in their first offer with just a £250 lump sum, door to door as duty, changing your start times by 2hrs a day,annualised hours,5 walks into 4,end of MTSF, new IR framework and more.i agree the union have been weak by passing everthing back down to local level, but people seem to be hung up on this flexibllity still. dont de scared just do the job properly and work to your time every day. the national agreement is still 3.5hr delivery span and no manager can make you work over this. tell me what else apart from a bit of flexibility have royal mail got in from their original list?

How long will 'National Agreements' last? Surely if everything is being shunted down to local level it is only a matter of time before these follow suit. The future looks pretty bleak.

On a separate note, this morning a notice appeared in my DO, detailing the amount of backpay and lump sum that we will get on December 14th if the deal is accepted. £350 it works out to and ten days before Christmas. This is RM's tactics, I don't know how we are going to convince any waverers with this.

[Albethere]

My ballot paper finally arrived so I thought long and hard, and voted NO!

Weighed up the pros and cons - and am quite clear that the Union Executive WERE shafted at national level. This would explain their WALL OF SILENCE at the conclusion of negotiations!!!!!!! I imaging the union executive were FORCED to comply with RM's "plan" - but had to make it appear they were in agreement, when really they ONLY accepted this agreement grudgingly and under much duress.

This is only my personal view - but then this is what has shaped my "personal" vote - so fair enough don't you think?

I do find it quite amazing that a UNION with such strong support from the membership up and down the country, can GIVE IN so easily.

Modernization - NO PROBLEM - I agree with most of the new ideas, but when will RM realize they must STOP taking the mickey out of staff, and instead should be supporting the staff and boosting staff morale - to encourage us ALL to be proud of our employer, rather than to DESPISE our employer - think ON.