GHOST OVERTIME AND MANAGERS

onthecase · Post by **onthecase** » 21 Jan 2019, 15:32

Please can anyone tell me if they know of any managers that have been disciplined for knowingly paying out for ghost overtime in the last 12 months,in London and SE Region.From my understanding it is misconduct offence for managers to sign it off.(signing off overtime for someone finnishing at say 5pm when they know they finnished at 3pm) Please correct me if you know anything please.

worktotime · Post by **worktotime** » 21 Jan 2019, 15:43

this goes on all over the country in every office its the only way they get the job done , even pda actuals hasn't stopped this so they cant be to bothered what they are paying out .

onthecase · Post by **onthecase** » 21 Jan 2019, 16:14

I know it goes on, but if push comes to shove is it right and has it been agreed with CWU .

worktotime · Post by **worktotime** » 21 Jan 2019, 16:21

onthecase wrote:I know it goes on, but if push comes to shove is it right and has it been agreed with CWU .

no and no , as cwu and r/m say that all paid hours should be worked before any excess o/t is paid .

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 21 Jan 2019, 17:42

From the code of business standards..

We expect you to protect our property and assets.
Don’t use our assets for your personal benefit or
the benefit of anyone other than the company.

You must:
• not claim money from the company for hours you did
not work;

• not claim money for a journey you did not make;

• not claim an expense you did not legitimately have
to pay; or

• not use inside information about a company transaction
for personal profit.

All the above are unacceptable and may be treated as gross
misconduct, which could result in your dismissal. If theft or
fraud is involved, we may prosecute.

onthecase · Post by **onthecase** » 21 Jan 2019, 18:19

Not per original question but thanks for your input
Wap

JKSmudge · Post by **JKSmudge** » 21 Jan 2019, 19:13

Woody Guthrie wrote:From the code of business standards..

We expect you to protect our property and assets.
Don’t use our assets for your personal benefit or
the benefit of anyone other than the company.

You must:
• not claim money from the company for hours you did
not work;

• not claim money for a journey you did not make;

• not claim an expense you did not legitimately have
to pay; or

• not use inside information about a company transaction
for personal profit.

All the above are unacceptable and may be treated as gross
misconduct, which could result in your dismissal. If theft or
fraud is involved, we may prosecute.

So a manager says " can you take out these extra loops please? I have no-one to do them... - I will pay you an extra 40 minutes " . Postie agrees and the details are put onto the OT sheet.

Postie finishes and leaves work 20 minutes after his normal finish time. Are you saying the postie has 'stolen' 20 minutes from RM and is liable for dismissal ?

If this is the case, then most people doing SAs are also falling foul of this if they have claimed 2 hours on a job only taking 1hr 30m.

The managers offer the OT, the alternative is it doesn't get delivered !

chickenwittle · Post by **chickenwittle** » 21 Jan 2019, 20:19

Ghost overtime will always be there or Royal Mail won’t get duties covered simple as that .

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 21 Jan 2019, 20:36

worktotime wrote:this goes on all over the country in every office :

Pretty sure it doesn't happen in mine.

JKSmudge wrote: So a manager says " can you take out these extra loops please? I have no-one to do them... - I will pay you an extra 40 minutes " .

The manager doesn't mention what he will pay (in my office). You just write down your finish time in the overtime book and claim what you worked.

Alexei · Post by **Alexei** » 21 Jan 2019, 20:47

Although the same outcome, there's a big difference between fraudulently claiming an extra two hours overtime you havn't worked, and bartering to be paid for three hours overtime when the work is only one hours worth.
It shouldn't happen, but it does - I even admit to doing it myself. That being said, I don't think any party would be spared if the higher echelon were to investigate.

In response to OP - don't have any official answer, but I would presume it's likely to be forbidden.

FinishOnTime · Post by **FinishOnTime** » 21 Jan 2019, 22:17

If you negotiate 3 hours of overtime to do 1 hour of work, fair play as long as you're working safely. The problem is that RM rate overtime has always been so phenomenally rubbish, no one in their right mind would do it pound for pound.

bensonhedge · Post by **bensonhedge** » 21 Jan 2019, 23:32

If its available and you want to do it, then do it. But dont sit there worrying about others doing it, concentrate on your own work we all know the actuals will only be used sparingly

Chalky13 · Post by **Chalky13** » 22 Jan 2019, 06:31

This is a huge bone of contention in our office. During the summer the PDA actuals were put in place, only a few ghosted and were told to work the hours they made extra to pay it back! IE finishing 3hr SA in normal duty time.

Now it’s a free for all again, theactuals are currently not officially in use, but we’re under the impression the data is being monitored currently.

The “clever” ones are going slow again guessing that will mean they won’t get any work added to their duty. Others are flying round and finishing at 1 every day, others are doing their duty and SA by 2:30

Who knows where it will go. But there is no uniform way of working across the RM offices, which is scandalous. There’s also no communication from the DOM to say what hours are being monitored.

For me now, I’m starting at my start time, not rushing and doing things straight, finishing when I finish. If it’s 2, 2:30 or 3.

I know for a fact though, as soon as it’s said the actuals are being used in the manner planned, to monitor duty time and deliveries, the 1 o’clockers will get back at 2:15 again.

number one · Post by **number one** » 22 Jan 2019, 20:31

The whole ghosting topic is boring and usually only brought up by the jealous types who are just jealous of how much the hard workers are earning. I ghost all the time, I get 30hrs overtime a week without fail and only work about 15 of them

Chalky13 · Post by **Chalky13** » 23 Jan 2019, 04:58

number one wrote:The whole ghosting topic is boring and usually only brought up by the jealous types who are just jealous of how much the hard workers are earning. I ghost all the time, I get 30hrs overtime a week without fail and only work about 15 of them

I’m surprised you aren’t picked up on that as it’s over EU working directive and as far as I’m aware there is a limit on the amount of OT you’re allowed to work in any given week. At least that’s how it is in our office.