Seniority

Fishtoft4 · Post by **Fishtoft4** » 25 Nov 2018, 11:39

As seniority is illegal for annual leave picking does this also apply to EVR’s and re-picking duties? Many thanks.

Biker Mouse · Post by **Biker Mouse** » 25 Nov 2018, 11:51

Fishtoft4 wrote:As seniority is illegal for annual leave picking does this also apply to EVR’s and re-picking duties? Many thanks.

100% Yes! Seniority should apply to repicks and EVR

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 25 Nov 2018, 12:03

The main tool for deciding who gets which duty in a repick, or who gets a vacant duty should more than one person apply, is seniority.

Don't know about EVR, didn't know such a thing still existed.

DrSatan · Post by **DrSatan** » 25 Nov 2018, 12:13

Fishtoft4 wrote:As seniority is illegal for annual leave picking does this also apply to EVR’s and re-picking duties? Many thanks.

Illegal? I'm pretty sure this isn't a law.

Post by **RobertT** » 25 Nov 2018, 12:19

NewPostieUK wrote:The main tool for deciding who gets which duty in a repick, or who gets a vacant duty should more than one person apply, is seniority.

Don't know about EVR, didn't know such a thing still existed.

I'm not sure Early Voluntary Retirement(EVR) does exist anymore. If it does, it's decided on seniority, but the benefits are a lot lower than they used to be.

Voluntary Redundancy(VR) still exists in the right circumstances, and is done on seniority within RM.

Driver74 · Post by **Driver74** » 25 Nov 2018, 12:20

Vr’s are definitely given out on seniority I’m pretty sure it’s part of the mtsf agreement

FirstPost · Post by **FirstPost** » 25 Nov 2018, 17:18

Seniority applies at my office, I'm 1 of the last on the list!

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 25 Nov 2018, 18:20

FirstPost wrote:Seniority applies at my office, I'm 1 of the last on the list!

Everybody was once.

Post by **ballsup** » 25 Nov 2018, 18:35

Seniority was taken out as the main picking order for A/L in the way forward agreement

Seniority applies for VR's

MTSF is used in repicks if there are pay protection issues, if everything is equal (pay protection, skills ETC) then seniority is used to split people. In the real world most people in an office revision will have no pay protection issues and have the skills needed for a particular duty so it will go on seniority the same as vacancies.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 25 Nov 2018, 18:54

DrSatan wrote:
Fishtoft4 wrote:As seniority is illegal for annual leave picking does this also apply to EVR’s and re-picking duties? Many thanks.
Illegal? I'm pretty sure this isn't a law.

The simplistic legal difference between illegal and unlawful is that an illegal act is expressly forbidden by law whereas an unlawful act is not expressly allowed by a law. In both cases there has to be a law, in this case the Equality Act.

An unlawful act usually requires legal precedent or the consideration of a judge before it can be classed as illegal.

maisymoo04 · Post by **maisymoo04** » 25 Nov 2018, 18:58

love seniority great watching everyone arguing over this that am heavy boss etc not taking break flapping around like birds and am sitting back laffing in my nice warm cozy van with my xmas cd on

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 26 Nov 2018, 00:10

DrSatan wrote:
Fishtoft4 wrote:As seniority is illegal for annual leave picking does this also apply to EVR’s and re-picking duties? Many thanks.
Illegal? I'm pretty sure this isn't a law.

Using seniority to pick AL in RM was challenged in the ECHR a number of years ago. I believe the challenge was upheld.

themailman · Post by **themailman** » 26 Nov 2018, 14:08

NewPostieUK wrote:
FirstPost wrote:Seniority applies at my office, I'm 1 of the last on the list!
Everybody was once.

I think the point that the poster was making is that being bottom of the seniority list 20-25-30 years ago is drastically different to being (near) bottom of the list these days as the job has changed so much.
There are guys in some offices that are over 15 years service who are still part time - something that would never happen 25-30 years ago.

My main gripe with seniority is that many long serving staff have it in their head that seniority applies to many more things than it actually does.

Holidays.
Doing certain indoor tasks (making such a scene when they are asked to do something slightly different from their 'normal' tasks that management let them have their way.
Unwilling to work with a new starter.

Driver74 · Post by **Driver74** » 26 Nov 2018, 14:19

I agree seniority was drastically different many years ago leave was picked on seniority then and senior staff had much easier jobs to pick from there were town centre duties that could be completed in around 30-45 minutes so don’t think it’s anywhere near as easy today the other difference being nobody complained about seniority in those days

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 26 Nov 2018, 16:20

I think what us long-term staff also need to remember is that the managers were not the complete and utter bell-ends they are now or at least they didn't get away with it then.

Management blatantly use the rota to punish any reserves that don't toe the line, they would never have tried that s**t back then.