Too big and politically important to fail?

[azza30]

So, could royal mail fail? If in a fairy tale everyone done the job correctly and it became Un profitable to continue as is, what would happen? No government would allow royal mail to fail.

So it would have to be taken back into public sector and competition removed.

So if my theory is right, should we let it fail financially? The uso will always exist?

[DGH]

No government would allow royal mail to fail.

I bet they would.

Look at the railways, water and power.

[itinerant]

The next 12 months are going to be interesting.

The recent news and comment in the press highlight the shareholder & company drive for a real push on future cost savings and all that can entail.

It's not a level playing field we compete in and unfortunately, like much of the modern business world nowadays, competition ends up in a race to the bottom in terms of staff pay/conditions and the level of service that can be provided.

[Gasman11]

With regards to our competitors and the use of subcontracted delivery drivers, i wonder what percentage actually have the relevant level of business use with their insurance companies? Judging by the age and condition of some of the cars i've seen being used i very much doubt it, surely it costs thousands to insure a vehicle to be used constantly for delivery purposes. A yodel driver stopped me yesterday asking whether the area he was in was safe to leave a parcel outside somebodys front door. It was a kids car seat and the box was massive, hardly indiscreet. That's what we're up against, low cost competition and get shut of parcels at any price attitudes, saying that at least they only have parcels to deliver.

[Seymour Buts]

If it become unprofitble it'd be unprofitable in the public sector, any government would very quickly become hugely unpopular overnight subsidising us so therefore it'd just fail and we'd be out of work. This is a relatively secure job, but I certainly wouldn't be complacent about it.

[Postie45]

If it become unprofitble it'd be unprofitable in the public sector, any government would very quickly become hugely unpopular overnight subsidising us so therefore it'd just fail and we'd be out of work. This is a relatively secure job, but I certainly wouldn't be complacent about it.

no, in the end the postal service is still an essential service to public and business with a USO, the uproar from Royal Mail going bust with no genuine alternative would be massive and the government would be forced to act. Subsidise it ? maybe not, buying back the business back into the public sector seems much more likely.

[postmanzach]

I don’t understand the massive fall in profits.. anyone explain?
as it said in the courier, there’s been a raise in parcels, and a 7% fall in letters but 24% less profits how does that work?!

[Seymour Buts]

If it become unprofitble it'd be unprofitable in the public sector, any government would very quickly become hugely unpopular overnight subsidising us so therefore it'd just fail and we'd be out of work. This is a relatively secure job, but I certainly wouldn't be complacent about it.

no, in the end the postal service is still an essential service to public and business with a USO, the uproar from Royal Mail going bust with no genuine alternative would be massive and the government would be forced to act. Subsidise it ? maybe not, buying back the business back into the public sector seems much more likely.

A postal service won't be essential for much longer, lets be honest. Every year people switch to paperless. Going on totalally annacdotal evidence I'd say 60 or 70% of what we deliver is crap, and given the push about the enviroment I can't see how that's gonna be allowed to continue either. A government at some point in the near future is gonna simply ban jank mail or make taxes so ludacrously high on it that it effectively bans it.

I've often said on here I do wonder what Royal Mail will look like in 20 or 30 years, certainly won't be what it is now. That said, the internet ain't going anywhere and the high street is isn't gonna recover so parcels are just gonna grow; I'd still say our jobs are relatively secure for the long term.

[azza30]

If it become unprofitble it'd be unprofitable in the public sector, any government would very quickly become hugely unpopular overnight subsidising us so therefore it'd just fail and we'd be out of work. This is a relatively secure job, but I certainly wouldn't be complacent about it.

This is simply not true. The East Coast Mainline has been taken back into public ownership twice in the last few years, and it then returned a profit to the public. The Tories can't face that fact and re franchised it again... and it failed.

The Public are happy to subsidise a Public Service that is there for the benefit of the public. NHS, Police, Social Services etc etc. It is the way public services are managed that create problems and allowed to fail in order to promote an idealogy of Conservatism that creates a backlash.

If the Government removed the ability of other companies to make a profit and undercut us but still make us deliver letters then we would start to claw back profits - I cannot imagine that any other industry has to do this - its like saying to the NHS, we won't fund you, but people can pay BUPA less than it would cost the NHS to carry out the operation and BUPA give a wee bit towards the cost of the operation to the NHS - it's a ridiculous scenario.

[DGH]

While I entirely agree that essential public services and 'natural monopolies' should be owned by the government (NHS, water, power, railways, postal service, telecoms infrastructure, etc), the 'liberal' economics that promotes private ownership or participation in these things is not a Conservative ideology, it permeates every political party in the UK, including the Labour Party (though not the current Labour Party leadership).

If we go bust, we will be blamed for paying frontline staff too much (way above 'industry standard') and not being 'competitive' enough. Most of the public will buy that even if they are a bit sad at seeing Royal Mail go - and they may not be - nobody cried when British Rail was broken up because government underfunding had reduced the service to a shambles. I don't remember marches in the street when water and power was sold off, and people seemed to very happily participate in the share buying that went with that.

We are not safe and it's unlikely that any party except the Labour Party will bring us back into public ownership - and even that will not be possible if we do remain in the EU, by any chance.

[swindonandy]

With regards to our competitors and the use of subcontracted delivery drivers, i wonder what percentage actually have the relevant level of business use with their insurance companies? Judging by the age and condition of some of the cars i've seen being used i very much doubt it, surely it costs thousands to insure a vehicle to be used constantly for delivery purposes.

I have Business use cover on my car - not for RM before someone whinges - and it costs me something like £10 a year more than fully comp.

[Bernardson]

With regards to our competitors and the use of subcontracted delivery drivers, i wonder what percentage actually have the relevant level of business use with their insurance companies? Judging by the age and condition of some of the cars i've seen being used i very much doubt it, surely it costs thousands to insure a vehicle to be used constantly for delivery purposes.

I have Business use cover on my car - not for RM before someone whinges - and it costs me something like £10 a year more than fully comp.

Business cover normally covers to and from work and attendance of meetings outside the normal area of work.
I had it for my vehicle when union rep. It will not cover deliver of mails and parcels. You would need an additional level of insurance.

[Gasman11]

With regards to our competitors and the use of subcontracted delivery drivers, i wonder what percentage actually have the relevant level of business use with their insurance companies? Judging by the age and condition of some of the cars i've seen being used i very much doubt it, surely it costs thousands to insure a vehicle to be used constantly for delivery purposes.

I have Business use cover on my car - not for RM before someone whinges - and it costs me something like £10 a year more than fully comp.

Business cover normally covers to and from work and attendance of meetings outside the normal area of work.
I had it for my vehicle when union rep. It will not cover deliver of mails and parcels. You would need an additional level of insurance.

Yep, using your vehicle constantly for business purposes will raise your premium significantly. Wouldnt surprise me if a large portion of sub contractors in their battered old cars aren't declaring its true use.

[Celgar]

I would say if it came to the crunch it wouldn't be allowed to fail or it would be continued in some format. The most likely thing to happen would be that it would be bought up by another country such as Germany. What we do is a necessary service and it would seriously affect many businesses if it just disappeared. Certainly more vital than RBS and that was thrown a lifeline when it should have gone to the dogs. RM currently has incompetent upper management and directors but if we could get rid of them the business could thrive.

[DrSatan]

With regards to our competitors and the use of subcontracted delivery drivers, i wonder what percentage actually have the relevant level of business use with their insurance companies? Judging by the age and condition of some of the cars i've seen being used i very much doubt it, surely it costs thousands to insure a vehicle to be used constantly for delivery purposes.

I have Business use cover on my car - not for RM before someone whinges - and it costs me something like £10 a year more than fully comp.

Business cover normally covers to and from work and attendance of meetings outside the normal area of work.
I had it for my vehicle when union rep. It will not cover deliver of mails and parcels. You would need an additional level of insurance.

Yep, using your vehicle constantly for business purposes will raise your premium significantly. Wouldnt surprise me if a large portion of sub contractors in their battered old cars aren't declaring its true use.

Same with takeaway drivers, can't see them paying for carry and reward insurance!