Overrunning Delivery..what is the procedure when....

Sir Henry · Post by **Sir Henry** » 02 Nov 2018, 17:30

..you tell the boss you're not going over, they tell you to ring them at a certain time, you do but they either ignore the phone or they've gone out on delivery themselves? Both instances have happened recently leading to folk working over when they needed to finish on time.

Sir Henry · Post by **Sir Henry** » 02 Nov 2018, 17:55

Our lot rarely allow bags to be left, they'd rather all bags were taken out so they can say the office was cleared.

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 02 Nov 2018, 18:01

I'd personally never take any mail out, if I knew I wouldn't be able to deliver it in time. I will take it if I want the overtime. That particular tactic.... "Take it out see how you go..." or "Ring me near your finish time...." is just Bullshit IMHO. The DOM's not bothered that you can't deliver it in time, he just wants a "Clear Office" in case he has a snap audit, or his Boss visits him.

I fell for that one years ago (we all learn the hard way) and the DOM tried telling me that once I'd left the building with the mail I was comittted to deliver it.

I think this Bullshit is once more used most effectively, by management, against our PT & Temporary colleagues. They may feel under more pressure to appease the DOM, and it's wrong.

I have worked (temporarily) in DOs where the Posties have brought back whole bags of mail.... with no apparent comeback. Although I wasn't there long enough to understand the Office Politics. Any of our colleagues have experience of that situation?

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 02 Nov 2018, 18:16

The way its supposed to work is that you don't tell the DOM how it should sorted out. You just say you won't have time to deliver XX amount of mail and what do they want to do about it. Taking mail out and then bringing it back is wilful delay so you don't want to be doing that.
Every DO still runs differently in many aspects that I won't list here. I think to be able to cut off more easily once you reach end of duty time you need to be working in a DO where all the posties cannot go home until duty time has ended. Then the posties that finish earlier can take the excess mail out and deliver it.

number one · Post by **number one** » 02 Nov 2018, 19:26

Celgar wrote:The way its supposed to work is that you don't tell the DOM how it should sorted out. You just say you won't have time to deliver XX amount of mail and what do they want to do about it. Taking mail out and then bringing it back is wilful delay so you don't want to be doing that.
Every DO still runs differently in many aspects that I won't list here. I think to be able to cut off more easily once you reach end of duty time you need to be working in a DO where all the posties cannot go home until duty time has ended. Then the posties that finish earlier can take the excess mail out and deliver it.

If you bring mail back after your contracted hours and you told the DOM before you went out on delivery you wanted to finish on your time then it is NOT wilful delay

Creditshampoo · Post by **Creditshampoo** » 02 Nov 2018, 20:08

Ask that it’s wrote down in the office diary record that you contest the amount you’ve been told is achievable.
You ask see this before you leave the office.
Don’t take no for an answer.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 02 Nov 2018, 20:08

Dorset Plodder wrote:I'd personally never take any mail out, if I knew I wouldn't be able to deliver it in time. I will take it if I want the overtime. That particular tactic.... "Take it out see how you go..." or "Ring me near your finish time...." is just Bullshit IMHO. The DOM's not bothered that you can't deliver it in time, he just wants a "Clear Office" in case he has a snap audit, or his Boss visits him. :thumbdown

I fell for that one years ago (we all learn the hard way) and the DOM tried telling me that once I'd left the building with the mail I was comittted to deliver it. ;liar I think this Bullshit is once more used most effectively, by management, against our PT & Temporary colleagues. They may feel under more pressure to appease the DOM, and it's wrong. :thumbdown

No, its a reasonable request that they ask you to take it all, if you refuse youre actually the one on dodgy ground. I would advise anyone having discussions with managers regarding to cut off is to get AT LEAST one witness who can defend you when questioned that there was an agreement to take out all the mail knowing that it was unlikely to be completed and that the postie was going to be returning the office so that they can finish at their scheduled finish time.

To the OPs point, you talked to the manager that you werent likely to complete, you attempted to ring office, if no one answers its clearly on them. Just return to office for you finish time.

citypostie · Post by **citypostie** » 02 Nov 2018, 20:14

Celgar wrote:The way its supposed to work is that you don't tell the DOM how it should sorted out. You just say you won't have time to deliver XX amount of mail and what do they want to do about it. Taking mail out and then bringing it back is wilful delay so you don't want to be doing that.
Every DO still runs differently in many aspects that I won't list here. I think to be able to cut off more easily once you reach end of duty time you need to be working in a DO where all the posties cannot go home until duty time has ended. Then the posties that finish earlier can take the excess mail out and deliver it.

How would that work then. Postie cuts off and brings 2 loops back, he has to come back 10 minutes before finish time to pouch off. The postie who finished early gets the bags loads them in his van then drives for 2 minutes then turns round to finish on their time bringing the bags back? Or the early finishers know that mail has been left in the office and they will get lumbered with it if they go back early so they drag it out a bit then get back 30 minutes early so 10 minutes pouching off, 5 minutes arguing then drive a bit then turn round and take the mail back to finish on time?

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 02 Nov 2018, 22:52

The official line is that if there is more work available and a postie returns before end of duty time the DOM is supposed to send them back out with more work. Of course if a postie hangs around somewhere then returns ten minutes before end of duty time that isn't going to be possible.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 03 Nov 2018, 00:04

General rules

Under normal circumstances, if procedures have been followed no conduct action will be taken against individuals if it is not possible to deliver all mail within their scheduled time

Measures must be put in place to advise employees on the course of action to be taken when difficulties arise when managers are unavailable

https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... 15&t=78561" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; In the PDF

Post by **POSTMAN** » 03 Nov 2018, 00:07

Taking mail out and then bringing it back is wilful delay so you don't want to be doing that.

No it isn't please see PDF in the post above.

After commencement of delivery

Where an employee is prevented from completing their delivery for any reason, it is essential that this is reported immediately, either by returning to the office or by phone.

luddite · Post by **luddite** » 03 Nov 2018, 05:43

Where an employee is prevented from completing their delivery for any reason, it is essential that this is reported immediately, either by returning to the office or by phone.[/quote]
If you work in an office where you pouch off in another town ringing the office number on the PDA, which no one will answer because managers have gone home, is acceptable?
Phoning the manager on his mobile with our mobiles! What!

cpsteve · Post by **cpsteve** » 04 Nov 2018, 09:18

If you tell your manager before leaving the office you may not have time to complete make sure you have a witness your rep is best.

Sir Henry · Post by **Sir Henry** » 04 Nov 2018, 11:55

POSTMAN wrote:General rules

Under normal circumstances, if procedures have been followed no conduct action will be taken against individuals if it is not possible to deliver all mail within their scheduled time

Measures must be put in place to advise employees on the course of action to be taken when difficulties arise when managers are unavailable

https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... 15&t=78561" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; In the PDF

Just what I needed POSTMAN, thank you!

robbertwhitton · Post by **robbertwhitton** » 04 Nov 2018, 16:48

Celgar wrote:The official line is that if there is more work available and a postie returns before end of duty time the DOM is supposed to send them back out with more work. Of course if a postie hangs around somewhere then returns ten minutes before end of duty time that isn't going to be possible.

Good point but I would love to have time on my round to “hang around somewhere” am usually bang on time which is fine,it does vary daily dependant on Mail volumes,which is nothing unusual,the system is a bit archaic to be fair,if your late out your probably going to finish late,you can’t forsee what’s going to happen on your round,and as many point out getting hold of a manager past a certain time isn’t easy,you tend to crack on and complete and start the laborious procedure of claiming overtime,even though he’ll question it,sighing back in at the time you get back,the consolidation bar code and pda actuals ,still not enough evidence,gets annoyed you have the cheek to want to claim on the good old swings and roundabouts system?,and no doubt be annoyed that you can’t complete as your slower and older than others,he always assumed the time you Finnish rather than the actual time you Finnish.