SWW 12 minutes later start not for everyone

trouble · Post by **trouble** » 12 Oct 2018, 20:10

Found out today that the later start time is not for everyone. The Dom has agreed with the morning locker Phg that he can start at his original time but finish 12 mins earlie. how can the Dom change what has been agreed nationally to suit him and his pal.
R we not all equal in today's age. Surely this is wrong on many aspects. He can,t be doing specials etc as they done arrive until l8r.
Any one else having this same problem and how do we stop it

number one · Post by **number one** » 12 Oct 2018, 20:16

trouble wrote:Found out today that the later start time is not for everyone. The Dom has agreed with the morning locker Phg that he can start at his original time but finish 12 mins earlie. how can the Dom change what has been agreed nationally to suit him and his pal.
R we not all equal in today's age. Surely this is wrong on many aspects. He can,t be doing specials etc as they done arrive until l8r.
Any one else having this same problem and how do we stop it

This will fall under operational needs. A bit like the person who opens up the building will arrive before others to make sure it’s open and people are ready to start work on time. Another case of worrying too much about others. I can’t believe people are so hung up about 12 poxy minutes.

hans solo · Post by **hans solo** » 12 Oct 2018, 20:52

its a poxy 12 mins just now but another 12 next year and so on big difference long term
f***ing favouritism

gerardy · Post by **gerardy** » 12 Oct 2018, 21:10

Maybe I am missing something but I was under the impression that the agreement is the same for everyone, no sub paragraphs or special adjustments just to suit the managers. Equality etc

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 12 Oct 2018, 21:24

number one wrote:
trouble wrote:Found out today that the later start time is not for everyone. The Dom has agreed with the morning locker Phg that he can start at his original time but finish 12 mins earlie. how can the Dom change what has been agreed nationally to suit him and his pal.
R we not all equal in today's age. Surely this is wrong on many aspects. He can,t be doing specials etc as they done arrive until l8r.
Any one else having this same problem and how do we stop it
This will fall under operational needs. A bit like the person who opens up the building will arrive before others to make sure it’s open and people are ready to start work on time. Another case of worrying too much about others. I can’t believe people are so hung up about 12 poxy minutes.

It's probably not going to be too long before "operational needs" applies to all CSS operators (and iLSM/IMP operators who do sequencing) as otherwise the amount of sequenced mail will have to be cut down

Post by **patrickstar14** » 13 Oct 2018, 05:07

12 mins has not been agreed everywhere as it is down to local agreement. Its a balance between meeting business constraints and looking after the staff as well.
If one person has been treated differently in the office compared to the same duties, then that is unfair. The other staff could raise grievances if there is no apparent reason for this.

number one · Post by **number one** » 13 Oct 2018, 09:56

patrickstar14 wrote:12 mins has not been agreed everywhere as it is down to local agreement. Its a balance between meeting business constraints and looking after the staff as well.
If one person has been treated differently in the office compared to the same duties, then that is unfair. The other staff could raise grievances if there is no apparent reason for this.

One person (the early PHG) can start early according to the op. This more than likely would fall under operational needs and any other early PHG that covers this duty would more than likely start at the same time. Doesn’t sound like you have been treated unfairly as you do a different job role

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 13 Oct 2018, 13:40

trouble wrote:Found out today that the later start time is not for everyone. The Dom has agreed with the morning locker Phg that he can start at his original time but finish 12 mins earlier. how can the Dom change what has been agreed nationally to suit him and his pal.
R we not all equal in today's age. Surely this is wrong on many aspects. He can,t be doing specials etc as they done arrive until l8r.
Any one else having this same problem and how do we stop it

Sorry but this is common sense for me.

The prios need scanning and working in the prio locker most of the work they do is concentrated at the start of the day, and the time constraints and pressure is there not at the end when all of the specials are out being delivered. The other tasks they do for the rest of their shift, at least in our office, do not have time limits or pressure, so why create more pressure at the start of the day just to appease others.

Okay, we all should be treated fairly but this is self evidently a practical solution to stop a problem before its starts.

Plus its not against the agreement - the agreement is for a 1-hour reduction in the working week nothing else. The LTBs and Joint statements are guides only, and if this has been agreed locally then it still complies with the national agreement.

Saying that and for full disclosure, at my office, we have had a rationalisation of the start and finish times, and strangely I start later on Tuesday and Saturday (and end later than before) but the rest of the week I finish earlier

trouble · Post by **trouble** » 13 Oct 2018, 15:04

We got clear instructions from cwu at top level that 1st hour reduction had to happen from start times.

No mention of special treatment for phg,s. We our all equal no favouritism. The PHG in r office 1st thing in the mornings only leaves trayed mail round to frames as priorities dont arrive until 2nd wave.
How many times can RM get away with using operation needs to suit themselves.
Is the sww agreement the same for everyone are not

number one · Post by **number one** » 13 Oct 2018, 17:19

trouble wrote:We got clear instructions from cwu at top level that 1st hour reduction had to happen from start times.

No mention of special treatment for phg,s. We our all equal no favouritism. The PHG in r office 1st thing in the mornings only leaves trayed mail round to frames as priorities dont arrive until 2nd wave.
How many times can RM get away with using operation needs to suit themselves.
Is the sww agreement the same for everyone are not

You really do have a bee in your bonnet about this don’t you. It was actually the business that said it had to be taken off the start. It’s not favouritism as has been already been explained

Jambomatt1874 · Post by **Jambomatt1874** » 14 Oct 2018, 08:01

Why did it have to be off the start? The pressure is on to get mail up before break. Everybody knows people are finishing early and hanging it out till they go back 10 minutes before they finish surely it would have made more sense to just take it off at the end!!

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 14 Oct 2018, 08:14

Jambomatt1874 wrote:Everybody knows people are finishing early and hanging it out till they go back 10 minutes before they finish surely it would have made more sense to just take it off at the end!!

Bad idea, with the PDA actuals the DOM can look to see where they're waiting and then go out and observe them doing so, then potentially conduct code them

trouble · Post by **trouble** » 15 Oct 2018, 18:55

Has the union any power in this industry as yet again its us staff who suffer from the Cwu HQ not enforcing agreements that are supposed to be the same for every member. They allow RM to make the rules up as they go along and then allow things like local agreements which sees all members ending up on different terms and conditions

number one · Post by **number one** » 15 Oct 2018, 19:09

trouble wrote:Has the union any power in this industry as yet again its us staff who suffer from the Cwu HQ not enforcing agreements that are supposed to be the same for every member. They allow RM to make the rules up as they go along and then allow things like local agreements which sees all members ending up on different terms and conditions

What different terms and conditions are you on? It’s not a one size fits all hence the reason we have local agreements.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 16 Oct 2018, 16:26

https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... 15&t=86264" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LTB 329/18 - CWU/RM Joint Statement - Shorter Working Week Introduction October 2018 in Delivery Units

There is nothing in there that says where the hour should come, and even where it does for certain specific circumstances, there is no stipulation on which end of the day it is.