DO I HAVE TO LAPSE EVEN IF I HAVE TIME ?

shaun1965 · Post by **shaun1965** » 06 Aug 2018, 16:00

As the title suggests do I have to take my lapsing..? We have been told that lapsing is supposed to free up annual leave slots but been told by management that due to the fact "as with other offices" that we don't have enough staff this wont be happening.
I am always happy to work to my time and there is always something to do "household prep" etc when /if i return to the office early.
Is it worth me painting that target on my back anymore for this..?

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 06 Aug 2018, 16:03

Yes - its classed as a reasonable request.

If you don't have the time - you don't.

shaun1965 · Post by **shaun1965** » 06 Aug 2018, 16:07

As the title suggests do I have to take my lapsing..? We have been told that lapsing is supposed to free up annual leave slots but been told by management that due to the fact "as with other offices" that we don't have enough staff this wont be happening.
I am always happy to work to my time and there is always something to do "household prep" etc when /if i return to the office early.
Is it worth me painting that target on my back anymore for this..?

arnold cheshire · Post by **arnold cheshire** » 06 Aug 2018, 16:48

Put your d2d together before you go out and say you might not have time to do your lapsing

GT85 · Post by **GT85** » 06 Aug 2018, 16:51

there is always something to do "household prep" etc when /if i return to the office early.

Supposing you had put in that days household prep before you went out on delivery that means that you are filling your time by doing tomorrows work when you get back therefore freeing up more time the next day and giving them reason to give you even more lapsing.

Not judging just saying

redneck · Post by **redneck** » 06 Aug 2018, 17:20

Your decision, lapsing becomes part of the overall duty assessment time wise,if you think you can't complete then raise the issue with the lino as soon as prep iss complete, if you can't agree on a remedy take the whole delivery and arrange a time for a phone call to report on your progress and whether you will be able to complete within your time or not. Bring what you cannot deliver in time back and make sure it is bang on time of finish when you get back.

Same old same old

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 06 Aug 2018, 17:44

i think we need to just have a lapsing and cutting off FAQ section, as its the same topics over and over.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 06 Aug 2018, 20:27

Lapsing can take place where you have spare capacity ie not enough work to fill your paid for hours.

If you do have time than management can introduce absorption.

Throwing up D2D may not be in their view an efficient way of working whereas absorbing a part delivery maybe.

tommyrep · Post by **tommyrep** » 06 Aug 2018, 20:46

Postie45 wrote:i think we need to just have a lapsing and cutting off FAQ section, as its the same topics over and over.

I agree.
Then all the posts can be gathered and sent to our CWU bosses and RMs top bosses, for ACTION and in depth attention to the most common, every day, pain in the arse that’s experienced in delivery. This daily problem only leads to the next big big pain in the arse which never gets properly addressed within delivery, persistent bullying & harassment!
These threads have been highlighting, moaning and complaining about the same thing for years now.
Without any sign of resolution.
Beggars one simple question, or two really:
1 Why does RM persist in trying to enforce lapsing in cases where it cannot be achieved within normal duty time.?
2 Why has our Union not taken real steps to tackle the most obvious daily problem that’s experienced in delivery!!! ?

It causes a disgruntled unhappy workforce, removes any trust between managers and posties. Aggro.
OPGs get stressed out, sick absence rockets and work becomes a living hell with daily arguments which should be ADDRESSED at the very top level with RM bosses and the CWU.

I wonder at times if it is by design and I am ashamed of the CWUs response to the most obvious problems within delivery.
They are well aware of the situation, yet sit on their hands and do nothing.
Time for them to do their job and represent and protect their membership from this most basic, blatant harassment!!!!
Are they incapable ? or just useless ? My view is they don’t care and are not interested in the daily s**t members endure.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 06 Aug 2018, 20:53

1 because the office DOM is told they have to do x amount of duties lapsing over the summer by his boss. To save hassle of people claiming "unfairness" these duties get evenly split between people who have enough time doing the same amount of lapsing as people who dont have enough time. The fact that it is getting done (see 2) means DOM is saving money, so therefore lapsing is working.

2 the union can only back those who say they cant do it, then dont do it and are prepared to face the aggro from the managers. A lot of people dont want aggro so just get on with it, work over for free or through their break, then moan on here how theyre overworked.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 06 Aug 2018, 20:59

Lapsing often takes place when someone rings in sick or when the DOM is looking to make savings. Nothing to do with filling that gap with more work. And when managers unfortunately can't do the work and are not being given any additional resources to get the work done i.e. by recruiting additional staff or bringing in staff on overtime to do the work, then problems will inevitably occur. It leads to managers almost being forced to try and bully and coerce posties into doing the work because they know their boss, sorry DIM, will be on their back otherwise. Its not unreasonable to lapse duties but it is unreasonable for managers to then try and employ bully boy tactics to try and force someone to take out extra work, knowing its not do-able. In fact, most of the managers themselves don't know if its do-able or not because they have never done the job! They can look at previous PDA data, but does PDA data tell you how many letters you posted that day??

Im afraid there are too many guys above us who are more than willing to bury their heads in the sands when it comes to lapsing.

world class male · Post by **world class male** » 06 Aug 2018, 21:36

we had a man in from above not in long ago, saying parcels is our main target, then we have lino's saying to leave whatever standard parcels you feel necessary and deliver mail off lapsed duty,
same next day and again

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 06 Aug 2018, 21:53

Postie45 wrote:these duties get evenly split between people who have enough time doing the same amount of lapsing as people who dont have enough time.

They are also split evenly between Full Time and Part time. A full timer has an extra two hours every day in which he can 'absorb' any extra work.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 06 Aug 2018, 22:36

The plus or 'selling point' for summer lapsing/absorption is that more annual leave slots can be made for July and August when a lot of people either want or have to take their holidays.
The negative is that RM say that, nationally and/or locally the figures are down so we need to lapse/absorb either by not covering days off/AL or sending staff to another office to force the need to lapse/absorb. You can say there isn't enough duty time to do the lapsing/absorption and see what the answer is.
The other alternative is to come together in your DO and say we are not going to lapse/absorb any more. This then means no postie can go home until their duty ends. Personally I am happy to work my paid time but I am not happy to do work unpaid because RM is under the impression I am finishing early when I am not. You are going to find other posties in your DO who would not be happy with this scenario and would like to continue going home before duty end. Therefore you cannot take this option and have to continue lapsing/absorbing when there isn't time to do it.

tommyrep · Post by **tommyrep** » 06 Aug 2018, 22:38

Postie45 wrote:1 because the office DOM is told they have to do x amount of duties lapsing over the summer by his boss. To save hassle of people claiming "unfairness" these duties get evenly split between people who have enough time doing the same amount of lapsing as people who dont have enough time. The fact that it is getting done (see 2) means DOM is saving money, so therefore lapsing is working.

2 the union can only back those who say they cant do it, then dont do it and are prepared to face the aggro from the managers. A lot of people dont want aggro so just get on with it, work over for free or through their break, then moan on here how theyre overworked.

1. So the Dom is told, therefore the problem is passed down from up top, so it is an issue that should be addressed by the Union above local level. It does not only happen over summer months. It is used by DOMs to cover sick leave. No additional annual leave is applied. It is not fair to divi up lapsing equally in call number if a duty has MORE spare time than another.( a pain to administer but can be unfair regardless ) I did state when there is NO time to do lapsing work !
2. That is a cop out by the Union. So they know it’s going on but SOME people just get on with it ? The others get undue hassle for questioning it, and have the nerve to moan about it.

Come on, it’s an ongoing outrage and the Union are more than happy to bury their head in the sand.
They do not want to rock the boat or deal with the HASSLE members endure.
They want an easy life, while the bosses you refer to - see No 1 - are left with a free hand to pass down blatant abuse via the DOMs onto the posties. The Union treat it as an isolated problem which it isn’t and many weak un represented offices are treated terribly.
Please do not try and defend an undefendable attitude by the Union. The treatment being delivered by the DOMs upon regular posties is a disgrace and should be exposed for the scandal it really is, with the full backing of the Union at the very top. Not ignored as trivial. It is High time they left their Ivory tower, got down to grass root problems and stick up for the members and not hide and pretend that lapsing is working like some kind of well oiled machine, it is not and they should realise that and act on it !