Lapsing Duties

zz666 · Post by **zz666** » 29 Jul 2018, 12:42

Should there be lapsing duties? I dont think so. Work as Royal Mail wants you to - work to time and no lapsing. PDAs dont know you run around like a headless chicken to finish early, or are very slow for that matter.

Chris413 · Post by **Chris413** » 29 Jul 2018, 14:35

I think lapsing is all wrong, there should always be enough perm and temp personnel to cover holiday and sickness in any DO.

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 29 Jul 2018, 14:52

If done properly, I don't have a problem with it.

There are easy days in summer, and work should be provided to take you up to your finish time.

However, there are many many problems with this. Duties that need overtime all year might have it easier in summer, but not easy enough to finish early, just easy enough to finish on time, or need less overtime.

Full timers have an extra 2 hours per day over me to absorb any extra work, yet I'm expected to do the same lapsing.

There needs to be something in place to take care of the lapsed duty when there isn't time for some or all people to lapse. This is my managers main excuse for pressurising us. He has nobody to deliver it, so we have to, and claim overtime if necessary.

There is scope for lots of people to do more work and still finish on time, but the manager can not identify those people, or those duties, he just wants a simple, blanket solution, and it doesn't work.

So many problems with lapsing that it is unworkable.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 29 Jul 2018, 15:29

zz666 wrote:Should there be lapsing duties? I dont think so. Work as Royal Mail wants you to - work to time and no lapsing. PDAs dont know you run around like a headless chicken to finish early, or are very slow for that matter.

The PDA data can now show precisely where you go and how long it takes you to do it. If you don't have the PDA on your person it shows you are using up time but not what you are doing so they can make presumptions and maybe say you were doing something you were not doing. Best policy now is to have the PDA physically on your person all the time you are on delivery. I realise you might feel this makes you like a Cyberman or a member of the Borg Collective but it is the best way for us to defend our jobs now.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 29 Jul 2018, 16:00

NewPostieUK wrote:If done properly, I don't have a problem with it.

There are easy days in summer, and work should be provided to take you up to your finish time.

However, there are many many problems with this. Duties that need overtime all year might have it easier in summer, but not easy enough to finish early, just easy enough to finish on time, or need less overtime.

Full timers have an extra 2 hours per day over me to absorb any extra work, yet I'm expected to do the same lapsing.

There needs to be something in place to take care of the lapsed duty when there isn't time for some or all people to lapse. This is my managers main excuse for pressurising us. He has nobody to deliver it, so we have to, and claim overtime if necessary.

There is scope for lots of people to do more work and still finish on time, but the manager can not identify those people, or those duties, he just wants a simple, blanket solution, and it doesn't work.

So many problems with lapsing that it is unworkable.

Some good points here to be making.
When the mail drops off a little in the summer it tends to mean on my walk that I end up finishing on time and work all the hours I am paid. But then when we are expected to do summer absorption on top that takes me over so I do work for free.

I agree that proper part time staff who are doing say 25 hours a week should not be expected to do any lapsing or absorption. Especially as a lot of posters on here who are part time cannot complete the work they already have in the paid hours given. Complete madness!!

RM want to run everything on 'skeleton staff' and cut costs wherever they can see a perceived loss. I am a bit more content in my job when I get paid for all the hours I do. It's when I am effectively expected to work unpaid that it rubs me up the wrong way. Then we get things like the recent 70% vote by shareholders against excessive remuneration ignored by the exact same RM executives who are being paid far too much to do sweet FA very incompetently!!

I agree there is physically scope for some staff to do more work. Some posties are unfathomably fast though and I expect all DOs will have a small number of them in their offices. I might be starting my mountain of redirections and I will look round and a couple of posties behind me are going out on delivery. Unless we attach lead weights to them they aren't going to slow down. It could be argued to give more work to those fast posties is punishing them or rewarding inefficiency. It's very tricky to know what to do in this situation that is fair to all. I do think that posties who are doing their best but take longer than others should be paid for the hours of work they complete.

Bahia Feliz · Post by **Bahia Feliz** » 29 Jul 2018, 19:28

Celgar wrote: Best policy now is to have the PDA physically on your person all the time you are on delivery

I now carry mine in my shirt pocket all the time,as suggested by a colleague.A bit heavy but it's the only way to show your movements accurately!

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 29 Jul 2018, 19:31

Celgar wrote:. I might be starting my mountain of redirections and I will look round and a couple of posties behind me are going out on delivery.

LOL I'll be walking across the car park 10 mins before my start time, and they will be driving out to start deliveries. And they'll be taking out the same lapsing as me.

danterossetti · Post by **danterossetti** » 29 Jul 2018, 19:36

NewPostieUK wrote:If done properly, I don't have a problem with it.

There are easy days in summer, and work should be provided to take you up to your finish time.

However, there are many many problems with this. Duties that need overtime all year might have it easier in summer, but not easy enough to finish early, just easy enough to finish on time, or need less overtime.

Full timers have an extra 2 hours per day over me to absorb any extra work, yet I'm expected to do the same lapsing.

There needs to be something in place to take care of the lapsed duty when there isn't time for some or all people to lapse. This is my managers main excuse for pressurising us. He has nobody to deliver it, so we have to, and claim overtime if necessary.

There is scope for lots of people to do more work and still finish on time, but the manager can not identify those people, or those duties, he just wants a simple, blanket solution, and it doesn't work.

So many problems with lapsing that it is unworkable.

He should not be pressurising you. If there is no one to deliver it - well that is his problem.

miles_peters · Post by **miles_peters** » 29 Jul 2018, 21:10

PDA actuals will be used against us next year to give us more lapsing in the summer, and lapsing will be all year round for everyone from now on

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 30 Jul 2018, 02:21

miles_peters wrote:PDA actuals will be used against us next year to give us more lapsing in the summer, and lapsing will be all year round for everyone from now on

How? If the PDA shows it took you 6 hours to do your 5 hour duty they can't argue you have time.

I don't see that the PDA will add anything to what they don't already know. Our times are there for everyone to see on the signing in sheet. I don't know if other offices are the same but we have sign in time, leave the office time, first letter time, last letter time, back to office time and duty finish time.

Islander · Post by **Islander** » 30 Jul 2018, 06:41

NewPostieUK wrote:
Celgar wrote:. I might be starting my mountain of redirections and I will look round and a couple of posties behind me are going out on delivery.
LOL I'll be walking across the car park 10 mins before my start time, and they will be driving out to start deliveries. And they'll be taking out the same lapsing as me.

This is the same for our office part timmers, there are some days when I have not even got to the office to start and I see some ft out delivering. If as part timmers we do not start until 9.30 how is it even possible to compete with a FT when you have to do their round when they have left at 8.45. I did question how I was ment to complete one round I was on When I do not leave until 10.10 ish when the full timmer has left at 8.45. I was told I had enough hours to complete it.

danterossetti · Post by **danterossetti** » 30 Jul 2018, 11:02

I try not to worry about others. If I have time to get shut of it all I take it. If not I cut-off. Simple

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 30 Jul 2018, 13:11

Islander wrote:
NewPostieUK wrote:
Celgar wrote:. I might be starting my mountain of redirections and I will look round and a couple of posties behind me are going out on delivery.
LOL I'll be walking across the car park 10 mins before my start time, and they will be driving out to start deliveries. And they'll be taking out the same lapsing as me.
This is the same for our office part timmers, there are some days when I have not even got to the office to start and I see some ft out delivering. If as part timmers we do not start until 9.30 how is it even possible to compete with a FT when you have to do their round when they have left at 8.45. I did question how I was ment to complete one round I was on When I do not leave until 10.10 ish when the full timmer has left at 8.45. I was told I had enough hours to complete it.

I would presume the prep and redirections are done for part timers? Is the pulling out and banding up done as well? Then you would get paid the duty hours that the full time postie was allocated for the delivery part of their duty.

yubin282 · Post by **yubin282** » 30 Jul 2018, 14:55

Chris413 wrote:I think lapsing is all wrong, there should always be enough perm and temp personnel to cover holiday and sickness in any DO.

well said

Post by **Navalron** » 31 Jul 2018, 09:04

Why do you all worry about who's doing what and at what time. Go in do your job and take your breaks and leave office and go home at finish time of docket if you want/need it. Simple.